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A real economics professor would (or should) have understood that his scheme was actually more a demonstration of communism than of socialism, the latter being a system that advocates social ownership of production and distribution, not an equal distribution of resources to all citizens regardless of their efforts.

Fwiw, it took literally 10 seconds to find that pretty obvious critique of what has been essentially spam propaganda of the U.S. far right lobbyists.
I quoted it as it seems to concisely say what I think a lot of us could easily identify in that long fictional anecdote.

Australia's been a good society by striving to (fairly successfully) achieve a balance between the better aspects of both socialism and capitalism.
Trying to argue blindly for solely one side *or* the other seems to be a blatant disregard &/or ignorance of our actual history. And a lack of appreciation of what we have here.

Quoting economics propaganda from the U.S. Seems to be a particularly poor move - one of the most inequitable societies in the Western World: great if you're on top of the heap, not if you're one of the *millions* that aren't. Or if you want an education. Or if you have a health problem. or if you're Mexican, apparently.
I think the U.S. is our great ally, but it is foolish to not see why we've clearly done a better job here in many many ways - both socially and economically. Being the biggest economy isn't necessarily the best outcome if you sacrifice everything else along the way to do it.

One final word:
Rehydrate.
 
manticle said:
What? So if I call a single person a ****** **** **** **** ****** poof or any other derogatory term, it can't be sexist/racist/locust/breadcrust/whateverist because they're one person?

Serious comment or taking the piss because if serious I'll buy you a drawing board you can return to at leisure.
****** = race based derogatory comment
**** = foul general comment
**** = minority based derogatory comment
**** = I'm not sure what this is
****** = minority based derogatory comment
Poof = minority based derogatory comment

You calling me a racist for booing Adam Goodes because hes a ******** and not because of the colour of his skin= Racist. If Adam were white would you be screaming "racist!"?

If I were a racist surely I would be booing all aboriginals. The fact it was only Adam Goodes means it wasn't racially motivated.
 
technobabble66 said:
A real economics professor would (or should) have understood that his scheme was actually more a demonstration of communism than of socialism, the latter being a system that advocates social ownership of production and distribution, not an equal distribution of resources to all citizens regardless of their efforts.

Fwiw, it took literally 10 seconds to find that pretty obvious critique of what has been essentially spam propaganda of the U.S. far right lobbyists.
I quoted it as it seems to concisely say what I think a lot of us could easily identify in that long fictional anecdote.

Australia's been a good society by striving to (fairly successfully) achieve a balance between the better aspects of both socialism and capitalism.
Trying to argue blindly for solely one side *or* the other seems to be a blatant disregard &/or ignorance of our actual history. And a lack of appreciation of what we have here.

Quoting economics propaganda from the U.S. Seems to be a particularly poor move - one of the most inequitable societies in the Western World: great if you're on top of the heap, not if you're one of the *millions* that aren't. Or if you want an education. Or if you have a health problem. or if you're Mexican, apparently.
I think the U.S. is our great ally, but it is foolish to not see why we've clearly done a better job here in many many ways - both socially and economically. Being the biggest economy isn't necessarily the best outcome if you sacrifice everything else along the way to do it.

One final word:
Rehydrate.
I agree totally with you but it was more about the principle. In Australia currently everyone has a fair go with so complaining that you cant set yourself apart from the masses especially when education and re-education is relatively easy to come by is cop out.
 
You boo Goodes in the context of him highlighting entrenched racism in Australian society, and you think it would be better if he hadn't. Seriously were you dropped at birth?
 
Liam_snorkel said:
You boo Goodes in the context of him highlighting entrenched racism in Australian society, and you think it would be better if he hadn't. Seriously were you dropped at birth?
You only say this because I am white which make you racist!

As a racist you have just put words in my mouth to support an unfounded view which in turn fuels the notion that racism is entrenched in Australian society.
 
This is either next-level trolling, or you're thick as a short plank. :unsure:
 
Liam_snorkel said:
This is either next-level trolling, or you're thick as a short plank. :unsure:
That's two personal attacks in two posts neither based on any fact.

You are the troll.
 
Burt de Ernie said:
I agree totally with you but it was more about the principle. In Australia currently everyone has a fair go with so complaining that you cant set yourself apart from the masses especially when education and re-education is relatively easy to come by is cop out.
Anyone who thinks Australia is a level playing field hasn't seen the challenges some Australians are up against since birth or the privilege others experience from birth. Entrenched socioeconomic disadvantage is a big issue and while it is possible for people born into it to achieve it is much harder than for someone who attends private schools and has a family with strong connections.

The fact that everyone has access to education and healthcare is fantastic. So is the fact that we have good infrastructure and a stable government which creates the environment for business to flourish. These are also paid for by everyone proportionately to how much they benefit. How is this a bad thing?
 
Burt de Ernie said:
That's two personal attacks in two posts neither based on any fact.

You are the troll.
it was a proposition based on your posts in this thread. What makes you think Australian if the year Goodes is a ********?
 
I agree with you contrarian it is much harder to succeed than someone who went to a private school and had family wealth behind them but it is those who are less privileged who have a greater will to succeed, and that will make all the difference. When you haven't had everything given to you on a plate you will work a lot harder.

Tony Liberatore was booed, especially by Richmond supporters, but I doubt it was anything to do with him being from Maltese stock, more about his actions on the ground, same as Kyrgios in Canada for his actions on the court.

I read this week that a man was fined in the UK, 280 pounds with 100 pounds compensation for calling an Irishman Paddy, I checked in the Oxford dictionary sure enough Paddy is no longer an affectionate word for Patrick but is now a racial slur, I expect it will be the same for Taffy and Jock.
 
Burt, if you truly believe the ALP is a socialist organisation then more education is required before speaking about socialism. Not knowing about a particular topic is not a problem. However,it is a problem when a person speaks loudly on a topic without understanding the most basic elements of the topic. Critical thinking is your friend. Don't be defined by a lack of it.
 
I lost any respect for Adam when he social status to call out the 13 yr old. Albeit it was because it was a racial slur, it didn't make what he did acceptable in any way shape of form.

Do I think the amount of booing is ridiculous....yes I do.

Is it racially motivated... no its not.
 
Burt de Ernie said:
That's two personal attacks in two posts neither based on any fact.

You are the troll.
Burt de Ernie said:
Haha.....good one.

Labor = socialist
Liberal = capitalist
Simply repeating the same badly iterated points doesn't make what you're saying any nearer to truth.
You're so far off the mark, it's hard to know where to begin.

Might as well debate someone who insists a muffin is some kind of an eclair.
 
goomboogo said:
Burt, if you truly believe the ALP is a socialist organisation then more education is required before speaking about socialism. Not knowing about a particular topic is not a problem. However,it is a problem when a person speaks loudly on a topic without understanding the most basic elements of the topic. Critical thinking is your friend. Don't be defined by a lack of it.
The ALP`s own constitution stipulates that is a "democratic socialist party".

My opinion is that any government should have a balance between socialism and capitalism. Lets face it, we are only as strong as our weakest link.

My previous comments were not based on at country leadership level rather a personal level. In my opinion on a personal level, having a socialist attitude is not only detrimental to you and your family but it is also detrimental to the country. On a personal level a capitalist attitude to work will get you a lot farther in life.
 
manticle said:
Simply repeating the same badly iterated points doesn't make what you're saying any nearer to truth.
You're so far off the mark, it's hard to know where to begin.

Might as well debate someone who insists a muffin is some kind of an eclair.
Agreed, you would be better off debating someone who insists a muffin is some kind of an éclair when you are unable to provide a counter.
 
Socialism | Define Socialism at Dictionary.com


dictionary.reference.com/browse/socialism





  1. socialism definition. An economic system in which the production and distribution of goods are controlled substantially by the government rather than by private enterprise, and in which cooperation rather than competition guides economic activity.

  2. “The Australian Labor Party is a democratic socialist party and has the objective of the democratic socialisation of industry, production, distribution and exchange, to the extent necessary to eliminate exploitation and other anti-social features in these fields”.
 
I would say the Labor arty is more Egalitarian than the LNP would ever hope to be
 
I agree that for some people who have not had life presented to them on a platter that this is motivation to work hard and succeed. For others the level of social disadvantage they experience makes it almost impossible to succeed.

30 years ago social housing was predominantly to support the working poor but now it is primarily supporting people with complex, inter generational problems.

There are some streets where all housing is social housing and no member of any of the families has worked for 3 generations. There is very little understanding or support of the benefits of education. Children born into these kind of situations often have no role models of what a work ethic is, often experience violence, abuse and neglect and so the cycle continues.

These are very different situations from the working poor like my grandfather who spent his working life in an abattoir. He had a with ethic and instilled that in his family.

Telling these people all they need to do is to try harder is victim blaming at it's worst but it is much easier to write off their effort than to consider how it is possible to address the complex challenges they have to become contributing members of society.

One of the big lies of capitalism is that those who work the hardest reap the greatest rewards. Those who control the means of production reap the rewards at he expense of those who work the hardest!
 

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