Glycol Cooled System?

[volcano]

Howdy folks,
Got a mate who is installing a new bar. He's very keen to have a glycol cooled system put in (either single or double tap) on a nice brass font.
Any idea what this will set him back? Any other suggestions on who to contact aside from Andale?

Thanks in advance.

 

[wessmith]

Volcano, try Lancer Pacific.

Wes

 

[Uncle Fester]

Howdy folks,
Got a mate who is installing a new bar. He's very keen to have a glycol cooled system put in (either single or double tap) on a nice brass font.
Any idea what this will set him back? Any other suggestions on who to contact aside from Andale?

Thanks in advance.

[post="108909"][/post]​

If he is using a fridge to keep the kegs cold, then you could have a 15 litre or so reserve of glycol sitting in the freezer compartment @ sub-zero temp. Then use a pond pump to pump the glycol to the font and back. Advantage is that you can run the beer lines along the glycol lines (insulate and lag the whole lot together), and pre-chill the beer that is in the lines.

$50 of Glycol and a $40 pump is better than buying a whole glycol setup....

M

 

[blue]

G'Day Valcono

Looking at doing a similar type of thing at home. Glycol systems work by refrigerating Glycol in a tank. This tank normal cycles at -2c to -1c. The kegs are normaly refrigerated and can be as warm as 10c.

So if you where to put the gylcol in the freezer and have your kegs in the fridge you are more than likely to freeze the beer in the lines as the glycol would be around -20c mark.

I would suggest looking in the Trading post for an portable ice bank system, much safer in controlling temp and you wont freeze beer at 0c. And if the thing craps its self you can take it to the repairer, cheaper on any repair bills
Otherwise a little tucker box freezer converted to run at say 1c and put your keg in that but you would have to chill the keg to serving temp before you dring. A 50 litre keg normaly takes 72 hours.

Chilling the font would not be needed as the whole thing would fit under the bar. The beer line is approx 4mm so the beer would be warm in this line for the first pot.

Hope I have been some help. Lets see what other think

Haqppy brewing Blue

 

[tonydav]

Was reading this thread and had a thought. My new setup (when I eventually build my new house and accordingly new bar) will have the kegs stored in the fridge 2-3 metres from the font. Realistically I'm thinking there'll be at least 4-5 metres of line to get to the font.

I already have a font, it's not flooded but looks great so I don't want to replace that.

I'm thinking about the suggestion of having the Glycol in the freezer with a small pump (and the comments about it freezing the beer). Any thoughts on how well it would work just having the glycol in the fridge and constantly circulating through the beer lines. All would be insulated of course.

An alternative thought was to have the glycol in a freezer under the bar, with the first few metres of beer line insulated but with no glycol. It will then go through the last 2-3 metres with the -15degree C glycol running through it. Assuming it dropped a few degrees in the first few metres, the glycol should cool it back down for the font.

Also, where do you buy glycol?

tony

 

[Uncle Fester]

Also, where do you buy glycol?

[post="108930"][/post]​

Have sussed it out at Super Cheap Autos $15/5litres.

 

[Hopsta]

Also, where do you buy glycol?

tony

[post="108930"][/post]​

And where do you buy food grade glycol? i have a flodded font that i would like to pump a glycol/water mixture through but am worried about it penetrating the beer lines. Hence my reluntance to use radiator fluid.

 

[T.D.]

Any thoughts on how well it would work just having the glycol in the fridge and constantly circulating through the beer lines. All would be insulated of course.

[post="108930"][/post]​

If the glycol would be above 0 degrees, why don't you just use water instead. If I had a flooded font, this is exactly what I would do - have a 10L tub of water in the coldest part of the fridge and pump that water up into the font and then back into the fridge. No worries about freezing the beer lines and no need for glycol at all, and the beer should technically never get warmer than about 2 or 3 degrees between the font and the fridge (that is, assuming the font is above or right near the fridge). I think glycol is overkill for most homebrewing keg situations. From what I have seen the real glycol systems are very expensive, and doing it with the freezer method, as has been mentioned, will almost definitely freeze the beer lines in the font (that is, unless you keep the beer flowing ).

 

[STEVENALI]

THIS ONE IS REALLY OF GREAT INTEREST TO ME.
heres what I did,but it could do with improvement and I would like to see some comments apart from blurbs about UPPER CASE STUFF,
I made a thirty litre tank from an old glass washer and put a fish pond pump in it
filled it with glycol (from the local fridgo $6-50 a litre) 4 litres of water to one of glycol,and stuck it in the freezer compartment of my beer fridge,I then ran the
pipe from the pump through the fridge out the side and into the font from where it is piped back to the freezer tank.on the way to the font the pipe has the beer lines
wrapped around it this is wrapped in alfoil and insulated then wrapped in alfoil again and taped up.The freezer compartment sits at -8 degrees the fridge is set at
4 degrees and the beer comes out the tap at 5 degrees.
this has only been running for 12 weeks and the fridge doe's not switch on and off as much as it used to,the ambient temp in my insulated shed is about 28 degrees
and I think having the font is a bit like having the fridge door open.my main concern is how long can a domestic fridge compressor handle this.
But Boys it doe's work.
I will try and stick some pickys on
see ya

 

[Uncle Fester]

So if you where to put the gylcol in the freezer and have your kegs in the fridge you are more than likely to freeze the beer in the lines as the glycol would be around -20c mark.

[post="108926"][/post]​

Heres my slant on it.....


I would expect that the font would heat the glycol quicker than the reserve could cool it, so after a few minutes of operation, the glycol would rise in temperature, and freezing would not be an issue. If so, then a variable flow pump would allow you to restrict the flow to negate the cooling effectiveness.

A second method would be to use a motorbike radiator (or a similar sized heat exchanger), that is embedded in a block of frozen salt water. The glycol would flow through the radiator, and would be chilled. this would require much less glycol, but has the disadvantage of being a closed system, and being hard to get right in the first place.

Being a smaller amount of glycol, it would tend to heat quicker, but the heat exchanger would be a far more efficient way of re-cooling the glycol on the fly...

When I have my font, I will have a play with both methods. Will post the results if anyone is interested. Gutfeel is that the radiator way is the way to go.


M

 

[Fingerlickin_B]

And where do you buy food grade glycol? i have a flodded font that i would like to pump a glycol/water mixture through but am worried about it penetrating the beer lines. Hence my reluntance to use radiator fluid.

I wouldn't worry about it man...you'll get very, very sick if you injest either of them h34r:

PZ.

 

[Uncle Fester]

And where do you buy food grade glycol? i have a flodded font that i would like to pump a glycol/water mixture through but am worried about it penetrating the beer lines. Hence my reluntance to use radiator fluid.

[post="108936"][/post]​

All Glycols are poisons. There is no such beast.

 

[STEVENALI]

I like the sound of the radiator I must away to my shed.I think you may have the answer.

 

[ausdb]

And where do you buy food grade glycol? i have a flodded font that i would like to pump a glycol/water mixture through but am worried about it penetrating the beer lines. Hence my reluntance to use radiator fluid.

[post="108936"][/post]​

Refrigeration wholesalers, you normally buy it and then dilute it down. Not sure what the dilution is off the top of my head but it depends on what working temperature you are after.

 

[GMK]

And where do you buy food grade glycol? i have a flodded font that i would like to pump a glycol/water mixture through but am worried about it penetrating the beer lines. Hence my reluntance to use radiator fluid.

[post="108936"][/post]​

All Glycols are poisons. There is no such beast.

[post="108956"][/post]​

I have bought glycol from Andale it is environmentally safe and white.

 

[Hopsta]

And where do you buy food grade glycol? i have a flodded font that i would like to pump a glycol/water mixture through but am worried about it penetrating the beer lines. Hence my reluntance to use radiator fluid.

[post="108936"][/post]​

All Glycols are poisons. There is no such beast.

[post="108956"][/post]​

I found this on on PROPYLENE GLYCOL i just dont know where to buy it in small amounts.
its for use in

"Organic synthesis, especially polypropylene glycol and polyester resins; cellophane;antifreeze solution. Solvent for fats, oils, waxes, resins, flavouring agents, perfumes,colours, soft drink syrups and antioxidants. Hygroscopic agent, coolant in refrigerationsystems; plasticisers; hydraulic fluids; bactericide; textile conditioners. In food assolvent, wetting agent, humectant. Emulsifier; feed additive; anticaking agent;preservative; cleansing creams; sun tan lotions; pharmaceuticals; brake fluids; deicingfluids for airport runways; tobacco and laboratory reagent."

"This product is a general purpose food additive, so should not present a problem for ingestion of small amounts; however ingestion of large amounts should be treated with caution medical advice sought"

Now if their was a leak i would be a bit safer with this stuff than i would with radiator fluid.

edit inserted extra info