Glycol Chilling Experiment. Fridgies Advice Please.

[sqyre]

I am presently attempting to build a Glycol chiller..
I have pulled a compressor unit and all the do-dads out of an old fridge/freezer.(in one piece)
The plan is to submerge the cooling element in an insulated tank of glycol/water mix.
Now the question is are there any potential problems that i haven't thought of..
im using it to try and chill approx. 50-60 litres.
The compressor unit has written on it. 1PH/220v/50hz....(1PH??? :blink: maybe 1HP? :blink: )
I have roughly worked out that approx. 7 litres will be used travelling through the lines,
font,plate,etc.

Any thoughts???
(I have no doubt that it will bring the liquid down to the specified temp..but is this going to overload / overwork anything???)

Right now i have the cooling element submerged in a 50litre bucket full of water.

Lets see what happens.... :blink:
outside temp 27degrees...after 90min in bucket with no insulation 11degrees..might just work ok(no Flames/smoke, etc.)

 

[berto]

Id say if you try and use it to keep things cool you will see a huge spike in your power bill. The 1ph, is 1 phase.

Maybe have a look at using an old air con instead and having a well insulated esky or the like so that once cold it will hold it's temp by itself more or less.

Check Overclockers Australia
Some of the more nerdy among us set these up to cool their computers.

 

[Andyd]

1PH refers to it being a single phase motor, I'd be suggesting.

Personally I've built a glycol chiller using a cheap KMart 60 litre freezer (picked up a dented one for $90), , sealed up the inside and half filled it with glycol. Works a treat and rarely runs (except when I run coolant through the font, in which case it runs continuously).


AndyD

 

[sqyre]

Cool thanks guys...

Ive got some cold room panel im going to use to make up a tank for the glycol.

if the compressor unit i have cant keep up i have a bigger one i can try.

My only concern was submerging the cooling element in the glycol but so far nobody has said its a no-no.

So on with the construction....

I have just about finished the "Temprite Tower" (still working out a suitable name)

I will post some pics when i find out what i did with the batteries for the digital camera.

 

[sqyre]

oky doky...thought i would post a bit of an update seeing how this is probably one the most popular post ever... :blink:

i have just about finished building my glycol tower...

What the hell is a glycol tower?? i hear you ask...

Well its an inline temprite...basically... I'm running my beer lines from downstairs to upstairs where the font resides.

To minimise the the beerline length and hopefully reduce the amount of pressure required to push the beer to the fonts location. I have constructed a chamber approx. 3 meters long that is filled with circulating glycol and also houses the 6 stainless beerlines within. Hopefully this will be enough to reduce the tempreture of the passing beer to the approx. the same temp as the circulating glycol.

I am hoping to keep the beer in the kegs downstairs at a higher temp. somewhere around 10-15 degrees to hopefully reduce the absorbtion of co2 at lower temps.If this fails i may have to look at using c02/nitrogen mix.( thanks Frogman)

I have also put together a self-priming system that hopefully will allow me to switch the unit on at the font and within approx 10 seconds prime the system and allow me to pour an ice cold beer. With the option of leaving it running during times of high usage or to switch on and off at intermittant times. Each time switched off the glycol drains back into the glycol tank reducing the work of the refridgeration unit.



Feel free to pick the hell out of my plan as i need some feedback to identify any possible problems.

oh and some pics...
View attachment 9715

View attachment 9714

View attachment 9716

 

[Zizzle]

Wow, looks pretty serious. Great stuff.

 

[Nickb167]

has anyone looked into using thermoelectric (peltier) cooling? its the thing they use in those portable electric coolers. the parts all seem really small and it seems to run on 12v dc, which is always good when dealing with liquids, metals and electricity.

would love it if someone who understands this stuff could work out whats needed to cool glycol to -2 Degrees as these units dont seem too expensive compared to other options.

nick

 

[pint of lager]

Peltiers have been discussed a few times. Do a search on peltier.

End result, they are power hungry and don't do a very good job compared to a cooler with a compressor.

 

[sqyre]

Hmmmm....
Hmmmmmmmmmmeeerrrrrr....

Well i have trialed and tested the Glycol system....
and it is a total FAILURE!!!! :angry:
Not happy jan....
Got the pack down to a nice -4 degrees and ice pack forming within it taking up about 40% of the tank...
hit the pump let it circulate for a couple of minutes and poured 2 beers and took the temp of the 2nd one..
13 degrees...from about 25 degrees tap water..not good...


hooked up a cold keg about 6 degrees and the 2nd pour came through at about 3 degrees..


also noticed that after a few minutes the stationary beer in the line surrounded by glycol is over carbonating.. Not a huge deal seeing that the 3 meters of line adds up to around 75ml of over carbed beer.
Oh well just means i will have to keep the kegs cold downstairs... :huh:

 

[PistolPatch]

It's all good fun eh Sqyre?

Didn't see this thread until now but a couple of thoughts come to mind between now and having an actual look on Saturday...

1. CO2 Absorption at Lower Temps - I wouldn't be worried about this at all. This was one of my first questions on this forum as I came from the pub background. CO2 absorption in pubs is mainly an issue because of higher pressure due to greater distance travelled. So keep your beer cold downstairs.

2. Beer Line Length in Tower - The 3m of line is fairly short but as you've seen from your test today it's certainly enough to restore the temp if the beer is originally at drinking temp downstairs.

It'll end up being a very nice system though I reckon. I hope I got the above right. Little hard to tell without seeing the set-up. I'm sure that you'll get heaps of good advice this Saturday.

Looking forward to it!
Pat :beer:

 

[MHB]

Sqyre
A glycol system as apposed to an Ice-bank, shouldnt be forming any ice, the glycol is an anti freeze. The point is to have a working fluid with a large thermal mass (a crap load of glycol/water mix) that can be pumped around at about -1oC.
As beer freezes at around -1.5oC, the system keeps cool and/or cools the beer without the beer freezing.

From what you have posted I am not sure if you are building an Ice-bank or a glycol system, in either case they depend on continuous flow of the coolant to keep the beer cold.

Commercial versions both require better thermostats than do domestic fridges as you are close to the freezing point of the beer you need a very narrow control range (a brissybrew thermostat should be good enough for glycol).
For an Ice-bank I would invest in a purpose built ice-bank controller, these are available from Andale, who are the Australian agent for Cornelius beer systems, Cornelius have a general purpose ice-bank controller that senses the amount of ice built up on the cooling coil.

Really the only advantage of a glycol system is that you can get the frosted font look. If you just want cold beer on, on demand, a tub of water in the bottom of the fridge and a pond pump is all you need. Naturally it has to run 24/7, otherwise as the beer line and coolant flow and return lines are both made of plastic - and as plastic is a poor conductor - it will take something like 1/2-1 hour to cool the beer in the lines down.

Find a product called Python, this is on the Andale website to, it's an insulated bundle of beer and coolant lines. You can either make something similar or buy some; this will dramatically increase the cooling efficiency and reduce the heat loss - reducing your electricity bill.

Hope this helps.

MHB

 

[sqyre]

Thanks for the feed back MHB..

I had explored pretty much everything you just posted before i started..

Was suposed to be a glycol pack..

The reason for the ice pack/bank is solely due to the fact i only had 5 litres of glycol for 70litres of water...( do you know how much that stuff costs..!!)

I had been running the refridgeration unit for a couple of days and after the Ice pack formed the compressor was kicking in very rarely..so i thought what the hell..might save a few bucks on the electricity bill. so i left it there.



I think were i went wrong was that i asumed that the rate of chilling was affected by the amount of glycol the beer lines were surrounded by. And to add to the chilling a reverse flow of the glycol against the beer flow was also done.



I obviously didn't look to hard at the time it takes for a liquid to change from one temp to another..



Oh well can't expect too much from a bloke with a PHD in Trolley collecting from Woolworths University.



But now i have the base equipment so yes, a few modifications and possibly a few meters of python line and we will see what devolops...



ALL IN THE NAME OF SCIENCE!!!! ....well BEER actually.. :super: