Gavo's 1st Partial Attempt

[Gavo]

Okay I am taking the plunge into what will most likley result in sometime sliding down that slippery slope and am at least going to try my hand at a partial brew and am looking for some input/advice tips and tricks. I have used the recipe below as an extract brew before with results that I am happy with and now want to replace some of the LDME with Grain.

Ingredients
1.60 kg Light Dry Extract (15.8 EBC) Dry Extract 43.84 %
1.60 kg BB Ale Malt (6.3 EBC) Grain 43.84%
0.25 kg Pale Crystal (110.0 EBC) Grain 6.85 %
0.20 kg Caramunich Malt (110.3 EBC) Grain 5.48 %
14.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [10.30 %] (60 min) Hops 20.5 IBU
14.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [10.30 %] (10 min) Hops 4.1 IBU
15.00 gm Cascade [6.30 %] (5 min) Hops 2.2 IBU
15.00 gm Cascade [6.30 %] Dry Hopped in primary
SafAle US05 Yeast.


Estimated brewhouse efficiency 70%.
Preheat Mash Tun 50 C
Mashing Base grain and specialty grains together.
Mash Strike water, 5.4 litre of water at 75 C. Mash target temp 68 C Mash for 60 minutes.
Batch Sparge with 6.3 of water at 75 C.

Boil volume of 9 litres adding Malt extract at the end of the boil. Strain hops into fermentor adding ice and ice water to cool and achieve final volume. Pitch yeast at 22 deg and ferment at 18 deg.

Estimate OG 1046

Now I know that the hop schedule does not meet the authentic style of an APA but I have enjoyed the last one with the same schedule and I don't want to change too much as I want to taste the result of replacing some LDME with Grain.

Suggestions with method are welcomed particularly with the Base grain and methods.

Cheers
Gavo.

 

[sponge]

Boil volume of 9 litres adding Malt extract at the end of the boil. Strain hops into fermentor adding ice and ice water to cool and achieve final volume.

Hey

If you're adding the ice and iced water to the fermenter, make sure you completely sterilize everything as well, and cover up the ice as the freezer is full of nasties

Sponge

 

[buttersd70]

I'm getting the same gravs as yourself, gavo, ....but what utilisation formula are you using for the hopping? Rager, or Tinseth? Was this done in beersmith or promash?

 

[Gavo]

Sponge, Wouldn't have thought bacteria in the freezer was a problem, I will certainly address this.

Butters, I am using Beersmith and I think I am using Rager, can't check until tonight. Thanks for checking the numbers.

Cheers
Gavo.

 

[Bribie G]

The mashing and sparging procedure is exactly what I do with my partials, also starting off with about 9 litres which should shrink to around 7.5 by end of boil, so plenty of room to add the LDME.

Just a hint, obviously with that amount of boiling liquid, tap water just ain't going to cut it for cooling purposes, but if you have fridge space then rather than using ice, grab a couple of ten litre woolies springwater in cubes, only about $3.50 each and chill them right down. The squeeze-taps are easily prised out for easier pouring and they make excellent water chilling cubes for all your future brews. They also have a blank outer protective cap that you can slip back on to keep them sanitary in between uses.

 

[Gavo]

Thanks Bribie, Have two of these and used them last time, Cooled them in my camp fridge. Hav also used a number of 2.4 litre juice bottles. Also cool in an ice bath. Last time I got the temp to low. :huh:


Cheers
Gavo

 

[Bribie G]

Getting some rain? I see from the radar there's another big patch heading for you and for Roma. It's piss-sisting to rain here on the coast :icon_cheers:

 

[buttersd70]

I think I am using Rager,

Oh, OK, that makes sense. At 100% utilisation, It only comes to 21.7IBU in tinseth, Rager shows it as 27IBU.....
If you've used Rager before and are happy with that scale and the level of bitterness, leave it as is.....if not, you might want to consider either changing to tinseth or at least adding another couple of IBU....Rager is supposedly more accurate for partial boils and Tinseth for full boils, but to be honest, I don't see that, myself. I used Tinseth throughout from extract, to partial, to AG, full boils, split boils, and concentrated boils.

You might want to consider dropping the crystal down, a bit as well, say to 150g? Given the fact that you have caramunich as well, this would bring the specialty grains down to just under 10% overall...

 

[Gavo]

Getting some rain? I see from the radar there's another big patch heading for you and for Roma. It's piss-sisting to rain here on the coast :icon_cheers:

Just some light rain ATM nowhere near enough, although the grain growers might have something else to say about that as it is the middle of the wheat harvest.

Oh, OK, that makes sense. At 100% utilisation, It only comes to 21.7IBU in tinseth, Rager shows it as 27IBU.....
If you've used Rager before and are happy with that scale and the level of bitterness, leave it as is.....if not, you might want to consider either changing to tinseth or at least adding another couple of IBU....Rager is supposedly more accurate for partial boils and Tinseth for full boils, but to be honest, I don't see that, myself. I used Tinseth throughout from extract, to partial, to AG, full boils, split boils, and concentrated boils.

You might want to consider dropping the crystal down, a bit as well, say to 150g? Given the fact that you have caramunich as well, this would bring the specialty grains down to just under 10% overall...

Butters, that may be right then (Rager) Bitterness was fine in the extract brew with the same hop schedule, I might be a little like yourself and like a lower bitterness, although I do like hop flavour. I might drop the crystal and up the BB ale malt to keep the OG up, not sure what figures yet I will look tonight.

That 27 IBU is that with your new formula of 111% hop utilization? I came up with around 26.5 IBU.

Cheers
Gavo

 

[buttersd70]

That 27 IBU is that with your new formula of 111% hop utilization? I came up with around 26.5 IBU.

Duh. :blink: I forgot to change back to 100% for the Rager.....I don't know if that extra is needed, as far as Rager is concerned, I only checked it in relation to tinseth.....if using Rager, leave it at the default 100% imo.

At 100%, I get 24.5 Rager, 21.7 Tinseth. Change Tinseth to 111% and you get 24.1.....interesting, the change on the utilisation for tinseth birings it into line with the Rager calculation (at least on this hop schedule. There might be slight differences because I don't have the BB malts loaded, so was guessing the potentials, and obviously mine is set for my actual equipment losses which are going to be slightly different to yours, and so I came in slightly lower on the grav. So go with your own calculations.)

Looks like you might be like me on bitterness preferences, particularly if that hop schedule has worked for your tastes on prior batches....your recipe as it stands is about what I would hop it to personally....I suggested slightly higher cos I'm so used to most people having more preference for bitterness than me. :lol:

 

[Gavo]

Butters, Its interesting seeing the difference in IBU. You're getting 24.5 with rager while I am getting 26.9, could the boil size settings be affecting this? My boil size is set to 9 litres with 9% loss. I have now loaded the BB malts , I was using American two row as I didn't know I could load this. Anyway with the BB malt loaded I have dropped the crystal to 150 grams and have 1.5 kg of BB Pale Malt (Ale) apparently it has a potentional of 1038 PPG. Estimate OG is 1047. I was using the crystal to help with head retention, is this not required as much when using base grain?

Cheers
Gavo.

 

[buttersd70]

....could the boil size settings be affecting this?

....I was using the crystal to help with head retention, is this not required as much when using base grain?

Cheers
Gavo.

Yeah, cos I was guessing what your sizes and losses are, and that effects the utilisation. Which is why I said go with your data, cos it's set for your equipment.....there will always me marginal differences based on equipment and processes.

I mentioned dropping the crystal down for 2 reasons, - firlstly, because you have around 50% grain in this, your head retention should be fairly good to start with, and secondly, because caramunich in and of itself will help with head retention as well. (as will any dextrinous malt). Don't forget, caramunich is a form of crystal in itself. Its German crystal derived from munich malt, instead of Aussie crystal derived from pale malt....different kilning process and flavour, but as far as dextrins and head retention is concerned, it serves a similar purpose.

 

[Gavo]

Yeah, cos I was guessing what your sizes and losses are, and that effects the utilisation. Which is why I said go with your data, cos it's set for your equipment.....there will always me marginal differences based on equipment and processes.

Just got to remember that this is my first partial and I am guessing figures such as boil-off, will have to take more notice now.

I mentioned dropping the crystal down for 2 reasons,

You know that without a mill of my own I will have to get Ross to mill my grain now as per recipe (min 500 gram crush. 200 grams of cara and 150 grams of crystal = 350 grams). Or can I store milled grain in the freezer for a period of time? I was going to buy at least a couple of brews of base grain at once.

Cheers
Gavo.

 

[buttersd70]

Not in freezer or fridge, but in dry cool place in a barrier bag of some sort is OK....But surely he'll just be throwing it in with the BB, and crushing the lot together, which will make it well in excess of this.....cos you'll be ordering all the malt for the recipe together at one time, it will be milled together, mixed, and sent together.....if you asked him to mill the grains seperately, then yeah, that would be a pita.....

 

[Gavo]

Okay, Just because I am going to be putting an order into Ross and will be in Brisvagas on Friday and therefore dropping into Craftbrewer I thought I would put another recipe together, after all why do one when you can do two, or three ... well you get the picture . I should have call this topic Gavo's 1st and 2nd partial.
Anyway I have put together what I hope to be a English Special/Best. I will be using the same methods as in the 1st mashing at 68C 9 litre boil top to 21lt batch. Ingredients are below any comments welcomed as I want to see if I am on the right track. I mean for crying out loud the best premium beer you can get out here is a Stella not to mention anyone else here who brews thinks raw sugar is the best kilo to use. How is a man to compare? :lol:

1.35 kg Light Dry Extract (15.8 EBC) 42.86 %
1.50 kg Ale - Perle Malt (Bairds) (6.3 EBC) 47.62 %
0.20 kg Crystal Malt Medium (145.0 EBC) 6.35 %
0.10 kg Caraaroma (390.0 EBC) 3.17 %
5.00 gm Nelson Sauvin [10.30 %] (60 min) 7.3 IBU
15.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (60 min) 10.7 IBU
15.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (30 min) 5.4 IBU
10.00 gm Goldings, East Kent [5.00 %] (15 min) 1.9 IBU
Nottingham Yeast

Cheers
Gavo.

 

[buttersd70]

Gavo, not only going grain, but an English.....now you're talking my language.

I've not tried perle malt myself, but should work very well for this....

For the specialty....personally, I would drop the crystal, up the caraaroma to 6% (or keep the crystal and drop the caraaroma....but I love caraaroma) and add carafa s1 at 3%.....that's the specialties used in this beer . But I like my bitters fairly dark...that was 31EBC, at the top end of the Best Bitter colour. If you want it a little lighter, go for pale choc instead of carafa special 1.

I've not tried NS, but from reading the flavour profile.....I wouldn't. Not for an English. But thats 2C.
I would definately reccomend simplifying the hop profile, though. I use 1g/L at 15min, and 0.75g/L at flameout. Enter that first, to get the IBU, then add whatever weight you need to the 60min to give you the total IBU required. I use fuggle, fuggle/styrian, styrian in my milds, and either fuggle, fuggle/ekg, ekg; or EKG throughout in my bitters.....for a first one, I'd say use EKG throughout.

I haven't entered it in software...but aim for 1037-1040 OG. (guidlelines say 1040 is the lowest, but pfft, whetever, imo. Mine falls into 'ordinary bitter' as far as gravity to 'style' is concerned, but has the flavour profile of Best.)

For the IBU, resist the urge to make it bitter. A 'bitter' should not be actually bitter, IMO - the name is a leftover from when hops were first started being used. Correct bitter should be 60%-65% BU:GU,it should be smooth, imo. I would go with 60%, so about 24 IBU total for a 1040. (or 25IBU to satisfy style nazis. )

All just opinion, obviously.

Edit: adn for the love of god, don't overcarb it.

 

[Gavo]

HaHa I knew you would like the choice of English Special/Best. Seems to me an easy drinker and that's what my extract version of this is like, although a little sharp in the bitterness. Maybe that is the result of the NS, I used it as I had it and it bumps up the IBU's easily.
Did you mean drop the crystal completely or just the amount?

Ok for the new abbreviated version all other ingredients the same.

100 grams, Crystal medium, 3%
200 grams, Caraaroma , 6%

New simplified hop schedule all EKG (might as well keep it simple for this one)

30 grams @ 60 min
21 grams @ 15 min
15 grams @ 0 min

total IBU 25.3

OG 1042

I am trying to keep in style for this attempt and then I can adjust from there. Therefore I have left out the Carafa or pale choc as they both will bump the color up out of style. I have also kept the IBU within the guides. Rules may be broken next time.
Love the idea of adding the late hop additions into Beersmith first, makes it damn easy to sort the rest out. Sometimes the easiest things just stare us in the face.

Cheers
Gavo.

 

[buttersd70]

Did you mean drop the crystal completely or just the amount?


Love the idea of adding the late hop additions into Beersmith first, makes it damn easy to sort the rest out. Sometimes the easiest things just stare us in the face.

I meant completely, but if the choc or carafa isn't going to be there, keep it like you have it now, it looks fine....

I'm a fan of adding late additions based on weight/volume, and considering the bitterness that the late additions give as a side effect to the more important role of flavour and aroma, and making any tweaks to bitterness on the 60, I believe it leads to a more consistant flavour profile.

I'd mash at 68 for partial version of this, as ldme will be a little more fermentable than the mash component, and nottingham is a high attenuator, anyway...if you ever scale it up to AG, you might want to drop it to 67, or even 66, depending on how much of a dry finish you want.

 

[Gavo]

Okay lock this one in, order goes in today.

specialty grains
200 grams Caraaroma 6%
50 grams Carafa T1 1.5%

Other fermentables as before mentioned, hop schedule as in prior post.

OG 1042
EBC 29.9
IBU 25.3

Don't mind a dark beer as long as it is smooth and well balanced.

Cheers
Gavo

 

[buttersd70]

Okay lock this one in, order goes in today.

specialty grains
200 grams Caraaroma 6%
50 grams Carafa T1 1.5%

Other fermentables as before mentioned, hop schedule as in prior post.

OG 1042
EBC 29.9
IBU 25.3

Don't mind a dark beer as long as it is smooth and well balanced.

Cheers
Gavo

yet another change :lol:

gotta say, sounds luverly. :icon_drool2:
And any of the variations discussed here sound good and would work fine (except maybe the NS ). What you're ending up with is outside the realms of OK, and in the realms of seriously tweaked.....maybe I should be a cheeky bugger and get you to send me a bottle.....

Edit....gotta love the carafa. I swapped to carafa special from chocolate, and was blown away with the cofee-like smoothness it gives.....mmmmmmmmmm.