Garden Hose water - is it so bad?

[Sam England]

The lead comes from PVC - it's added as a stabiliser.
http://www.pvc.org/en/p/lead-stabilisers

Yes, letting the hose run would reduce this significantly. But when I brew I use 34 litres or so and boil it down, then pass the remaining 24 litres through my body as a filter. The exposure may be small, but I think there is sufficient toxic exposure in my life without adding lead, BPA pthalates to the mix if I can easily use food grade plastics.
http://www.mnn.com/your-home/organic-farming-gardening/blogs/lead-in-your-garden-hose-study-finds-high-levels-of-toxic-

Good article on plastics here:
http://www.choice.com.au/reviews-and-tests/food-and-health/food-and-drink/safety/plastic-food-containers.aspx

It depends on the PVC your looking at and obviously the website too!! Plenty of bias from both camps and I'm sure the truth sits somewhere in the middle.

From the Vinyl camp:-
"Lead compounds were traditionally used as heat stabilisers, primarily in rigid PVC such as pipes and gutters. They have been used safely for decades. The stabiliser is tightly bound into the PVC matrix limiting leaching from the surface of PVC and their use is not considered to have contributed significantly to lead in the environment. However, given the community's concern about lead as a toxic heavy metal, and the potential for workers to be exposed to lead in stabiliser manufacturing and use, the industry in Australia (and elsewhere) committed to phase out its use in PVC products." http://www.vinyl.org.au/pvc-the-environment/pvc-environmental-faqs

Interestingly the research linked to the high lead comments in your post both used the following procedure. There's no way I'd drink water that's been sitting in a hose for three days either!!
"The hose was completely filled with water and each end was clamped-off to prevent water from contacting brass fitting. The hose was placed in a yard in full sunlight for three days (72 hours). The hose was unclamped and the water sample was directly collected from the hose into glass sample containers." http://www.healthystuff.org/findings.050312.garden.php

Mainly due to convenience, I personally use the garden hose (after a quick flush) for filling, but anything in contact with the wort from then on is silicone due to high temp leaching of plasticisers which I 100% agree on.
Each to their own though with what they feel comfortable with.

Cheers,
BB

 

[beersom]

galvanised pipes with lead solder were used well into the 80's
I'm pretty sure a large number of us brewers live in houses that were built in the 80's or earlier
just because lead has been removed from pipes being installed now, doesn't mean that it's not there in older houses
Even brand new brass taps can still have upto 5% lead in them

I'm happy enough to wait another 15 minutes or so for my water to come up to strike temp

Former plumber and son of a plumber, now a brewer ....always obsessed with water quality
Galvanised pipes were never soldered.... ever.
By the 1980s houses were nearly always plumbed with a combination of copper, brass and poly piping. For the 100 or so years prior threaded galvanised piping and copper tails was the norm.
When I was a plumber we specialised in maintenence and so I saw a lot of old water supply pipe work. I only once ever out of thousands of jobs saw lead used in water supply piping (drainage many times , supply once) and that was on an ancient old vanity that was supplied at low pressure from a tank. The vanity and the house it was in hadn't been used in many decades and we were retro fitting it for a renovation as it couldn't take mains pressure and that pipework had been rendered illegal many, many decades before.
AS3500 does not allow lead in water supply piping. (as3500 is the code governing plumbing and drainage in AUS/NZ)
It is also well and truly safe to drink water from a hot water system.

 

[hsb]

Isn't the issue with hot water tanks more to do with metals in the water itself, rather than the plumbing, becoming concentrated by the heating elements? ?

Hot water systems generally contain more dissolved minerals and metals, due to the heating process.

From:
http://www0.health.nsw.gov.au/pubs/2004/pdf/drinkwater.pdf

 

[kahlerisms]

None of you have convinced me that my hose or hot water system with ruin my beer (or my insides) yet.

 

[Yob]

there isnt anobody who didnt care about water quality left alive to 'convince' you,

just the ones that do

 

[Goose]

that water can contain a lot of lead

geez, am i showering and washing up in lead ? :unsure:

 

[bum]

None of you have convinced me that my hose or hot water system with ruin my beer (or my insides) yet.

Is this high on anyone's to-do list?

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

Hose = arse
If you like eating arse go for it. :icon_vomit:
Nev

 

[mark0]

Isn't the issue with hot water tanks more to do with metals in the water itself, rather than the plumbing, becoming concentrated by the heating elements? ?


From:
http://www0.health.nsw.gov.au/pubs/2004/pdf/drinkwater.pdf

the hot water unit is a sealed system. you can't concentrate anything in a sealed system. try boiling your wort with the lid on and see how far you get!

water with mineral content (ie normal water) goes in, gets heated, sometimes leave minerals in the HWS, then leaves the HWS. Therefore the water leaving has less minerals than it had to start with. The heating process drives the minerals to precipitate, so they arent likely to spontaneously redissolve into hot water!

nothing is created (excluding heat itself) or destroyed inside the HWS, what goes in one side comes out the other side.

whether the water gets heated in your HWS or your hot liquor tank makes SFA difference to the water. Your power bill might say different things.

 

[bum]

Some plumber on here a while back explained the issue being something to do with dissolved metals from certain sacrificial anode types. Can't remember the full details as I have nfi what type I have so the knowledge doesn't help me at all.

 

[Batz]

Hose = arse
If you like eating arse go for it. :icon_vomit:
Nev

Taking from experience Nev ?

 

[kahlerisms]

I bought a new hose - it will be used for brewing only. It won't be left in the sun or with water in it. I won't use the first few litres. I boil it anyway.

I'll also invest in one of those caravan filter thingos in a few weeks.

 

[pk.sax]

Difference between caravan hose from buggerings and other hose was so small it wasn't worth stuffing around with anything else.

To each their own. I'm highly skeptical of the Chinese shit we import. Unless it specifically says its so or I can work it out its so, never take for granted that its followed the much vaunted precious 'Australian standards'. Especially in products that are so low value that its not worth anyone's time or money testing them as standard practice. Business' will try and cut any cost they can, most are run by homos... Err, accountants.

 

[TidalPete]

To each their own. I'm highly skeptical of the Chinese shit we import. Unless it specifically says its so or I can work it out its so, never take for granted that its followed the much vaunted precious 'Australian standards'. Especially in products that are so low value that its not worth anyone's time or money testing them as standard practice. Business' will try and cut any cost they can, most are run by homos... Err, accountants.

+1 multiplied.

 

[dougsbrew]

so accountants are homos and arse = hose..enemas 4 bean counters.. great thread. lol.
btw from q2 of OP running hot water through filter is not a good idea, pasteing snippet -
The biggest problem with hot water is the sloughing off of chemicals/compounds which had been adsorbed to the filter surface. Heat causes the carbon pores to open up, reducing the filtering effectiveness, and resulting in lead or chemicals being released into the water. This performance degradation occurs even though hot water is usually below 212 degrees F, and therefore not hot enough to alter the raw materials or cause damage to the filter itself. If someone does run hot water through the filter, immediately run cold water through the filter for at least 3 minutes, to cool and flush its contents. Do not drink hot water passed through the filter.

 

[Batz]

so accountants are homos and arse = hose..enemas 4 bean counters.. great thread. lol.

Where did you pick that up?

I didn't think accountants where homos, but I'll be more careful next time I visit mine.....he did look at my bum and scratch his dick last time??? :lol: :lol:


OK I see where you got that from, don't let it worry you.

 

[DUANNE]

so accountants are homos and arse = hose..enemas 4 bean counters.. great thread. lol.
btw from q2 of OP running hot water through filter is not a good idea, pasteing snippet -
The biggest problem with hot water is the sloughing off of chemicals/compounds which had been adsorbed to the filter surface. Heat causes the carbon pores to open up, reducing the filtering effectiveness, and resulting in lead or chemicals being released into the water. This performance degradation occurs even though hot water is usually below 212 degrees F, and therefore not hot enough to alter the raw materials or cause damage to the filter itself. If someone does run hot water through the filter, immediately run cold water through the filter for at least 3 minutes, to cool and flush its contents. Do not drink hot water passed through the filter.

so if youre carbon filter is near the end of its life could you run hot water through it to clear out the nasties its collected and get a bit more use out of it?

 

[dougsbrew]

so if youre carbon filter is near the end of its life could you run hot water through it to clear out the nasties its collected and get a bit more use out of it?

i was thinking the same thing, though id imagine not, i think what its saying is it wouldnt release all contaniments, just the more loosely held ones.

 

[Glot]

Try poly pipe if you want a cheaper option.
Water from a storage hot water heater is classed as non potable. Mainly due to the possibility of bacteria breeding in one set too cool.

 

[GalBrew]

i've done the same as Yob has suggested - been using the light blue food grade hose from Bunnings for 18 months now and much happier with it. I also run it through a two stage filter - sediment and then carbon.

Same here. Good combo.