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Is fermenting a cider like nicks going to cause the fermenter to catch bugs and further contaminate following brews or don't they stick around? Just curious as I want to give that same cider a go as I loved it! I just don't want to introduce bugs into my brewery.
Florian
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Aydos, if you want to be safe use a different fermenter or cube, and ideally place it well away from your other stuff. You could easily run without any troubles, but likewise the opposite can occur.
I ferment and handle all funky stuff in a closed room under the stairs at ambient, far away from other fermenting gear.
Up to you how much risk you're prepared to take.
I ferment and handle all funky stuff in a closed room under the stairs at ambient, far away from other fermenting gear.
Up to you how much risk you're prepared to take.
manticle
Standing up for the Aussie Bottler
So far I have had the schloss apfelwein, etienne dupont and bordelet** in the (cold) fridge for a few weeks.
Being small amounts, it's pretty impossible to take gravity samples so I have had to rely on pressure build up as an indicator of fermentation and when no more is released, guessing that fermentation has finished.
I've boiled up some small vials to keep samples of the yeast/bacteria cultures.
Today I cracked the schloss apfelwein, poured off most into a jug and the dregs into one of the vials. First smell wasn't promising and on tasting I got sweet, very slightly sour apple juice. No amazingly unpleasant but not what I'm chasing and I would guess the sour will just increase if not kept cold.
Measured the gravity and got 1.050 so guessing that one's a failure and my earlier (stupid) opening of the bottle to smell what was happening has encouraged acetobacter. Dregs down the sink.
Opened the etienne dupont, poured into a jug, gravity sample is 1.002. Very very funky, bready aroma and flavour. Quite full on funk but definitely in the ballpark of French cider and suggestive that this yeast* is reculturable from the bottle and will ferment out a juice without assistance from any other known strain. I will be hanging onto these dregs as I have managed to get character twice from this cider now.
Juice was preshafruit pink lady.
*or various micro-organisms including yeast
** Think I wrote earlier that the bordelet had gone into the blend that was discarded but I have a preshafruit bottle with bordelet on the cap so I am presuming it was the ecusson that got chucked. Amazing scientist I turned out to be.
One thing worthy of note is that I have not strictly controlled the temperature of these - normally I would ferment cider at around 14 or lower.
Being small amounts, it's pretty impossible to take gravity samples so I have had to rely on pressure build up as an indicator of fermentation and when no more is released, guessing that fermentation has finished.
I've boiled up some small vials to keep samples of the yeast/bacteria cultures.
Today I cracked the schloss apfelwein, poured off most into a jug and the dregs into one of the vials. First smell wasn't promising and on tasting I got sweet, very slightly sour apple juice. No amazingly unpleasant but not what I'm chasing and I would guess the sour will just increase if not kept cold.
Measured the gravity and got 1.050 so guessing that one's a failure and my earlier (stupid) opening of the bottle to smell what was happening has encouraged acetobacter. Dregs down the sink.
Opened the etienne dupont, poured into a jug, gravity sample is 1.002. Very very funky, bready aroma and flavour. Quite full on funk but definitely in the ballpark of French cider and suggestive that this yeast* is reculturable from the bottle and will ferment out a juice without assistance from any other known strain. I will be hanging onto these dregs as I have managed to get character twice from this cider now.
Juice was preshafruit pink lady.
*or various micro-organisms including yeast
** Think I wrote earlier that the bordelet had gone into the blend that was discarded but I have a preshafruit bottle with bordelet on the cap so I am presuming it was the ecusson that got chucked. Amazing scientist I turned out to be.
One thing worthy of note is that I have not strictly controlled the temperature of these - normally I would ferment cider at around 14 or lower.
manticle
Standing up for the Aussie Bottler
Bordelet hit 1.030 so presumably fridged too early.
Resulting cider smells slightly bready, sweet with hints of wood and something that I recognise but is eluding me.
Initial flavour is bruised fetid apple (not great) with a slightly sweet finish and a hint of pineapple. A couple of sips and the bruised apple takes a back seat.
Has potential but needs time would be my assessment with this one. So far I'm leaning towards fermenting out with 4766 and adding dregs in as per my original post/inspiration when I do a full batch. I will perist with some reculturing ideas too but will be a lot more cautious with the next lot.
Got an anneville and a victor Gontier cidre bouche on the go so will see how they are in a few weeks.
Resulting cider smells slightly bready, sweet with hints of wood and something that I recognise but is eluding me.
Initial flavour is bruised fetid apple (not great) with a slightly sweet finish and a hint of pineapple. A couple of sips and the bruised apple takes a back seat.
Has potential but needs time would be my assessment with this one. So far I'm leaning towards fermenting out with 4766 and adding dregs in as per my original post/inspiration when I do a full batch. I will perist with some reculturing ideas too but will be a lot more cautious with the next lot.
Got an anneville and a victor Gontier cidre bouche on the go so will see how they are in a few weeks.
manticle
Standing up for the Aussie Bottler
Apart from the rundown above, I haven't checked the others to be honest. I'll get around to it.
Maybe this weekend but above results suggest I might have better luck fermenting as normal and adding in a few dregs (has worked in the past) rather than trying to culture and primary ferment.
Maybe this weekend but above results suggest I might have better luck fermenting as normal and adding in a few dregs (has worked in the past) rather than trying to culture and primary ferment.
manticle
Standing up for the Aussie Bottler
Have to declare this close to a failure. Opened the last 2 recently and gravity of both was very high. Flavour of fetid apple juice - sink pours.
I will still re-trial adding funky dregs to a batch of cider fermented with 4766 but trying to ferment a batch on its own looks well nigh impossible (apparent exception of the etienne but I wouldn't want 20L of what that ended up tasting like).
I will still re-trial adding funky dregs to a batch of cider fermented with 4766 but trying to ferment a batch on its own looks well nigh impossible (apparent exception of the etienne but I wouldn't want 20L of what that ended up tasting like).
After trying my first proper French cider last week (Cidre de Fouesnanz by Manoir du Kinkiz), I've decided I'm a big fan of funky ciders so time for an experiment.
As of this arvo 8L of normal supermarket Apple juice met 250ml of WY3031 (saison/Brett blend) slurry. Will ferment at summertime ambient and report back in a few months.
As of this arvo 8L of normal supermarket Apple juice met 250ml of WY3031 (saison/Brett blend) slurry. Will ferment at summertime ambient and report back in a few months.
TimT
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I loved making wild cider this year (it's all gone now, alas), but in spite of temptation I didn't re-use the wild cider dregs - I now see from this thread it may have been a good choice on my part: the results would probably have been very different second time around, and possibly given over entirely to a lacto-bacilli.
Manticle, aside from getting juice fresh from an orchard - better than the store-brought apple juices or apple concentrates at HBS - you could try hooking up with Mutaneer, a member of these threads - he also has a facebook page. He even appears to have a source for traditional cider apple Cox's Orange Pippin, which I'd love to ferment with.
The benefits of freshly-pressed apple juice for cider are many, of course, but one would surely be a better, more vigorous range of yeast cultures ready to spring into action.
Manticle, aside from getting juice fresh from an orchard - better than the store-brought apple juices or apple concentrates at HBS - you could try hooking up with Mutaneer, a member of these threads - he also has a facebook page. He even appears to have a source for traditional cider apple Cox's Orange Pippin, which I'd love to ferment with.
The benefits of freshly-pressed apple juice for cider are many, of course, but one would surely be a better, more vigorous range of yeast cultures ready to spring into action.
CmdrRyekr
Well-Known Member
I'm interested to hear how this one ends up. I have a smack pack of this about to be cultured and split into jars..AJ80 said:
