Fully Automated Brewing System Design

[manticle]

Hi Katzke,

Is this mainly due to the possibility of oxygenation or some other reason?

Cheers

 

[katzke]

Hi Katzke,

Is this mainly due to the possibility of oxygenation or some other reason?

Cheers

Don't know. Just know it is not recommend. It can be done, however the beer should be designed to be diluted. Oxygen is a factor so the water needs special treatment. Much easier to brew a strong wort and dilute that then try and brew a strong beer and treat the water for dilution.

My intent of the post was not to change his mind. It was to let others know that the guy designing the system is not some brewing expert and that diluting fermented wort is not recommended for the average home brewer. If you want to discuss dilution it would be best to look up the thread. Here is a link to it as I was just looking at the last post. http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...c=44273&hl=

 

[yardy]

rinsing kegs in the later to be unvieled keg washing part,

I hope to build it into the morning coffee part of the brewery

bandito, good to see you're back into it :icon_chickcheers:

with regards to the keg washing plant and the morning coffee area, will they be situated near the 'oh **** i can't get to washing machine anymore' area ?

cheers

 

[unrealeous]

This whole thread reminds me of that urban myth..

NASA needed a pen that could work in zero gravity for use by astronauts, so they spent six years and $12 million on its development. The pen can write upside down, underwater, on almost any surface and is functional at extremely hot and cold temperatures.

Faced with the same problem, the Russians used a pencil.

 

[BjornJ]

Commercial breweries dilute with deoxynated, carbonated water after fermentation.
The reason is that they brew high-gravity wort and fermenting this gravity wort means they can dilute with water to get a larger volume of beer than their tanks.
As in a tank with 100,000 litres of beer can be diluted with 30% water and you end up with more beer to sell

Read a post by ThirstyBoy who work at a brewery, he said part of the flavor profile for Australian lagers come from the fact that they are brewed from high OG wort, then diluted after fermentation is complete.

thanks
Bjorn

edit: Didn't mean that Australian beers taste this way due to post-fermentation dilution, but that part of the flavor profile comes from this practise (as opposed to homebrewers brewing at final gravity)

 

[Zizzle]

This whole thread reminds me of that urban myth..

NASA needed a pen that could work in zero gravity for use by astronauts, so they spent six years and $12 million on its development. The pen can write upside down, underwater, on almost any surface and is functional at extremely hot and cold temperatures.

Faced with the same problem, the Russians used a pencil.

The other part of that myth is that you don't want graphite particles floating around in zero-G to get in the switches and electronics that run the tin can that sustains your life and gets you back to 1G.

Maybe the Russians didn't think of it? Maybe they assessed a low risk? Maybe they didn't care about losing cosmonauts?

To each his own.

 

[redlegger]

Got a call RE: the Butterfly valves - they are in the country, and are now in the process of being cleared by customs. I would like to think that I will get them on friday, but it has taken so so long that all I can hope for is a friday in june! This purchase has been so drawn out it really starting to piss me orf.

Hey mate - just curious, why didnt you get the valves from an aussie supplier? There are heaps of valve companies around that carry these off the shelf?

 

[katzke]

Commercial breweries dilute with deoxynated, carbonated water after fermentation.
As in a tank with 100,000 litres of beer can be diluted with 30% water and you end up with more beer to sell

Exactly, they also have a lab to test water, malts, hops, and every step of the brewing cycle. As home brewers it is easier to brew to gravity then to brew a high gravity beer and dilute it. If you must dilute a beer it is less problematic to do it pre ferment then post ferment.

Besides I though the reason we brewed at home was because we did not like the beer that comes from such factories. Could that be part of the reason?

 

[JonnyAnchovy]

The other part of that myth is that you don't want graphite particles floating around in zero-G to get in the switches and electronics that run the tin can that sustains your life and gets you back to 1G.

Maybe the Russians didn't think of it? Maybe they assessed a low risk? Maybe they didn't care about losing cosmonauts?

To each his own.

redditor? this was on the frontpage recently.

 

[paulwolf350]

This whole thread reminds me of that urban myth..

NASA needed a pen that could work in zero gravity for use by astronauts, so they spent six years and $12 million on its development. The pen can write upside down, underwater, on almost any surface and is functional at extremely hot and cold temperatures.

Faced with the same problem, the Russians used a pencil.

Exactly. Lol, I love it

I love this thread too, btw, classic. construction shouldnt be too far away

 

[Daniel.lear]

Don't know. Just know it is not recommend. It can be done, however the beer should be designed to be diluted. Oxygen is a factor so the water needs special treatment. Much easier to brew a strong wort and dilute that then try and brew a strong beer and treat the water for dilution.

My intent of the post was not to change his mind. It was to let others know that the guy designing the system is not some brewing expert and that diluting fermented wort is not recommended for the average home brewer. If you want to discuss dilution it would be best to look up the thread. Here is a link to it as I was just looking at the last post. http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...c=44273&hl=

If you wish to dilute post-fermentation the water must also be free of any chlorine as it reacts with hops forming chlorophenols i believe. Happy to be corrected.

Leary

 

[manticle]

This whole thread reminds me of that urban myth..

NASA needed a pen that could work in zero gravity for use by astronauts, so they spent six years and $12 million on its development. The pen can write upside down, underwater, on almost any surface and is functional at extremely hot and cold temperatures.

Faced with the same problem, the Russians used a pencil.

no idea who developed it but such a pen does (or did) exist. When I did my Fine art degree, the nearby artshop (Melbourne City Eckersley's) stocked them for a while. I think it relied on its novelty for sales.

I can remember thinking 'what possible use will anyone have for that?"

 

[bcp]

no idea who developed it but such a pen does (or did) exist. When I did my Fine art degree, the nearby artshop (Melbourne City Eckersley's) stocked them for a while. I think it relied on its novelty for sales.

I can remember thinking 'what possible use will anyone have for that?"

:icon_offtopic: Who, me?
"It was developed not by NASA, however, but by one enterprising individual, Paul C. Fisher, owner of the Fisher Space Pen Company. By his own account, Fisher spent "thousands of hours and millions of dollars" of his own money in research and development not billions.The Fisher Space Pen is still used by both American and Russian astronauts on every space flight, and you can even buy one yourself direct from the company for a measly 50 bucks."
http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_z...gravity_pen.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Pen

 

[Bandito]

Hey mate - just curious, why didnt you get the valves from an aussie supplier? There are heaps of valve companies around that carry these off the shelf?

The cost for local Teflon coated was about $1400 each from Tyco ($700 for non teflon but stuffed if I'm going to have a rubber seat in contact with my boiling wort, and teflon coated is reccommended for boiling temperatures to ensure a good seal). I must admit though, it might not have been that much dearer considering the numerous importation fees (neglecting local GST, would have been about $800 more at a guess). Here is the invoice I got today for customs clearance, and sending to my home from the airport. I wouldnt have a clue what half of those fees are - got no choice though, have to pay it - and just did

Its a phenonomal cost, but these butterfly valves are the 'Fully' part of the 'Fully Automated Brewery'. I maght have been able to get away with just tipping the MLT, but there is so much stuff going in the top I really wanted it stationary.

 

[redlegger]

The cost for local Teflon coated was about $1400 each from Tyco ($700 for non teflon but stuffed if I'm going to have a rubber seat in contact with my boiling wort, and teflon coated is reccommended for boiling temperatures to ensure a good seal). I must admit though, it might not have been that much dearer considering the numerous importation fees (neglecting local GST, would have been about $800 more at a guess). Here is the invoice I got today for customs clearance, and sending to my home from the airport. I wouldnt have a clue what half of those fees are - got no choice though, have to pay it.

Its a phenonomal cost, but these butterfly valves are the 'Fully' part of the 'Fully Automated Brewery'. I maght have been able to get away with just tipping the MLT, but there is so much stuff going in the top I really wanted it stationary.

I work for Tyco over here in WA

PM on the way

 

[Bandito]

You have proven you do not take advice /snip

Really? me? Do you like apples? How do you like this apple from page three?

>>>

gday bandito,

mash tun: a piece of cloth in a fully automated system ?

why not a decent sized dump valve in the base of the Tun to assist with cleaning ?

for this to work you should be underletting your strike water also (water from HLT flows in under the false bottom)

to CIP after the spent grain has been dumped your rinse/spray water would first flow from the top and then from the underlet, everything goes out the dump valve.

i'm not saying this would work as i think there will always be a small amount of grain left behind in the false bottom but i think if you're serious it's a better alternative than a piece of cloth that could present lautering problems, high pressure and a series of rinses through the dump valve would help.



in order, HLT to MLT to Kettle

cheers

Dave

I trust a 300mm butterfly valve is considered a decent sized dump valve. I am still waking up in the middle of the night in cold sweats after having wierd dreams about underletting! I always make up my own mind after considering the suggestions.


Back on topic:

Thanks Redlegger9, I had heard of the term 'EPDM rubber' years ago, and when I saw it in the Tyco catalogue, I got turned off it. Perhaps I should have found out what EPDM actually stands for, what it is etc.

 

[Bandito]

Inspired by Absinthe's malting thread, I have decided to add self malting and kilning to the fully automated brewery. Been thinking about it for about a month, and in the last few days have built up a reasonalbe 3d model in my head. Will model it in cad as time permits, and post when ready, but will basically be a perforated Stainless Steel drum that rotates inside a larger SS drum. Will have water sprayers for soaking, and a heating element for kilning. Will be insulated to allow use like an oven.

At this stage it looks like a single vessel with manual bagging. I doubt it will be operational by mid august - which is when I am planning to do the first mash, so probably about december, but would like to make a bulk SS fabrication order, so might be ready earlier.

One issue is that with that amount of time being moist, even SS might rust, so it might require a coating of teflon.

I found a place in QLD that can bake teflon onto vessels. Trying to find a damn good reason not to have everything baked with teflon. The malting parts are the only ones so far that I think would need it though.

 

[unrealeous]

I have decided to add self malting and kilning to the fully automated brewery

Sounds great - this is a really exciting development. Can't wait to see it all in action. I'll make sure I get a good doctor so I'm still alive in 2047.

Seriously dood - don't take your eye off the pie.

 

[LethalCorpse]

I have decided to add self malting and kilning to the fully automated brewery.

BWAHAHAAAHAHHHAAHAHHHAHAAAAHAHAHHAAAAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHA
HAHAHAHHAH *cough*
:lol:

 

[katzke]

You have got to be kidding! You have any idea how long it will take to malt enough grain to feed your automated brewery?

Plus roasting grains requires them to age so you will be out for any other then base malt.

Then there are crystal malts to consider.

You planning on moving into a bigger basement apartment with an extra bedroom and a good enough floor to hold your monster brewery?