Food Poisoning From Beer

[Jagungal]

Can beer that is maybe off make you sick, as in giving you some kind of food poisoning ?

The situation is this, I have someone who I owed a few favours - and they absolutely love one of my Stouts.

They asked if I would bring some to a BBQ the other day so he could give some to another guy he knows, I could not make it but gave him a few bottles instead.

I got the report back that one of the bottles made them sick, as in two days of being sick and throwing up. He said that one of the bottles was not carbonated but thats it. I asked why they drank it if it was not carbonated .. he said it was because it tasted ok.

To me it sounds like a general food poisoning being the most probable culprit. There were three adults at the BBQ and they all drank the beer - and all adults got sick. Children there did not drink the beer and did not get sick.

So, considering that the beer contains alcohol, that previous bottles have been ok and that people often let their beers go off (Lambic), is it possible that this beer was the cause of the food poisoning ?

 

[hairydave]

Can beer that is maybe off make you sick, as in giving you some kind of food poisoning ?

The situation is this, I have someone who I owed a few favours - and they absolutely love one of my Stouts.

They asked if I would bring some to a BBQ the other day so he could give some to another guy he knows, I could not make it but gave him a few bottles instead.

I got the report back that one of the bottles made them sick, as in two days of being sick and throwing up. He said that one of the bottles was not carbonated but thats it. I asked why they drank it if it was not carbonated .. he said it was because it tasted ok.

To me it sounds like a general food poisoning being the most probable culprit. There were three adults at the BBQ and they all drank the beer - and all adults got sick. Children there did not drink the beer and did not get sick.

So, considering that the beer contains alcohol, that previous bottles have been ok and that people often let their beers go off (Lambic), is it possible that this beer was the cause of the food poisoning ?

yes its possible, but BBQ's are notorious for food poisoning so more likely the food caused it, but it is possible that there was a "bad bug" in that one bottle...

i'd linky link to my post in K&K on water filtration but i don't know how yet

 

[Kai]

Beer will not give you you food poisoning/

 

[capretta]

there is a book called new brewing lager beer by greg noonan that asserts that no seriously pathogenic (serious sick causing) organism can survive in beer due to the acidity and alchohol level. i have found that to be true and have drank brews where the fermenter has been ringed with grey scum and tasted like drunks vomit, and although it tasted terrible it didnt make me sick. i must admit i didnt drink much of it but the taste kind of precluded a binge

it is much easier for poorly kept food to be the reason for the illness, i have never heard of someone getting ill from HB.

maybe tho it would be best (diplomatic) to lie and say you tried a new yeast? just promise not to use it again, they will not know better and assume you are some sort of psycho pioneer living on the edge of brewing...

 

[Brewtus]

Beer was developed by Vikings and others as it was safe to drink, the water was filtered though the mash, boiled and the yeast dominated the wort and the alcohol stopped any bugs growing.

The chances of getting food poisoning from beer is very remote. Getting it from bad food hygiene is a much higher risk. What did the grown ups eat the kids didn't? Salad? spicy stuff?

 

[capretta]

yeah yeah in mideval times it ensured that the water was ok to drink, not always a sure thing.. even kids drank beer for meals.. can u imagine mum? " drink up your beer so you can be nice and healthy" !!

 

[redbeard]

u didnt mention what they cooked on the bbq. kids usually get snags, the adults might have snags / steak / seafood / chicken .... salad. perhaps the mayonaise was off !

if the beer smelt ok, i sought of doubt an infection.

 

[Whistlingjack]

I agree with the above. It's highly unlikely that the beer was the cause of your friends' illness.

However, you CAN get sick from HB. Especially if your grains are stored in the wrong way and allow the growth of molds and fungi, such as fusarium. These can transfer mycotoxins right through to the finished beer. Sure, its rare, but it has happened.

If you use extracts, no problem, but its something to think about.

WJ

 

[reVoxAHB]

I'm a qualified chef and have food safety handler papers, etc.

I'd put my money on any of the following, before beer, especially considering we're talking bbq:

1.) Poor food storage (leaving meats, etc. out in the sun in danger temp/range waiting to be cooked, etc.) Poor transportation of items from house/store/etc. to bbq party/area.

2.) Not completely cooking meats at proper temp or for long enough to kill said bacteria if improperly handled/stored.

3.) Poor cleaning of food preparation area, especially the grill and or hot plate of a barbie. Doesn't take any stretch of the imagination to fully realize the breeding potential for bacteria on a barbie. How many of your mates do honestly see properly scrubbing their bbq's in warm soapy water and/or bleach, etc. after each use?

4.) Poor hygene of the person handling the food, eg quick piss or otherwise and back to barbie duties (no hand wash). A little something they teach you in school: there's enough bacteria in human feces to "go through" or "permeate" 10 full layers of toilet paper to reach your hands. Never, ever, skip washing your hands after using a toilet, period.

5.) Dodgy meat to begin with. So often it's quantity over quality when it comes to bbq meat, much like mega swill. I make it a point to bring my own meat/fish/etc. to a barbie (no matter how poncey I may appear). Have not a problem slapping a well seasoned thick as my fist porterhouse on the grill next to the 15 aussie snags for $2.49. Problem is, keeping the other meat away from mine and alas, I eat my steak rare. Generally speaking, I feel ok knowing I've sealed the outside of my steak at high temp (and therefore killed any nasties I may have picked up from surrounding meat, or the grill itself - I know there's absolutely no guarantee of this, it's a risk I take).

You mentioned the adults all got sick but the kids didn't. Maybe all of the adults ate 'the deviled eggs' where the kids didn't. Many variables to consider, not just that the kids didn't drink beer (that's a given and easy target, eh?)

You did mention the beers had no carbonation. That could mean they weren't capped/sealed properly. Did you prime properly? Are you using pop top bottles (or screw offs)? Do you use a decent capper, and not a hammer like I've actually heard of friends using? Were the caps you used new, clean and free of erosion? Do you take the time to examine each and every bottle for any sign of sediment, before bottling? Are you using a proper sanitiser like iodophor or bleach, and the proper amount? Are you letting your bottles contact the sanitation solution for at least 20 minutes (preferably longer) before rinse or drying?

I'm just wondering, worst case scenario, if the following could make you sick: a bottle that had a large amount of sediment from the previous batch with remaining slurry having grown bacteria/mold for several weeks or months, that you somehow missed at bottling, bottle not properly santised, new beer racked on top with poor capping- yeast would eat the priming but the generated carbonation would escape (again, due to poor capping) likewise oxygen could work it's way in so that the bottle is not locked...

I'm wondering how resilient that slurry bed could be, even with fresh beer racked on top of it?

It's all pretty far fetched, when you put it up against old Larry having not cleaned his barbie since 1987.

To summarise, tell your friends it's 99% the aforementioned 1-5 and 1% the worst worst case scenario and even then because of beer's acidity and alcohol content, there are no known pathogens that can survive in beer.

reVox

 

[Kai]

However, you CAN get sick from HB. Especially if your grains are stored in the wrong way and allow the growth of molds and fungi, such as fusarium. These can transfer mycotoxins right through to the finished beer. Sure, its rare, but it has happened.

Oops, I forgot about this. Still far more likely to not be your fault though.

 

[browndog]

Revox, that post is worthy of a Pistolpatch Gold Star Award. If the answer is not there then it must have something to do with quantum physics. I have a question on the cleanliness of BBQ plates. Do you really need to scrub them in soapy water and/or bleach? Does not getting the plate/grill up to cooking temp before adding the meat kill any bugs that may have bred on the plate since the last BBQ? My normal routine is to get the plate nice and hot then pour some beer on it and scrub it with some newspaper and that's about it. Is this OK?

cheers

Browndog

 

[ant]

Jagungal, I reckon you should defend the honour of your beer.

Grab half a dozen bottles of your stout, take them round to your aforementioned mate's house, and proceed to drink them, preferably while watching the footy. Although your coherence may decrease over this period, your confidence in your sanitation and brewing ability will improve in leaps and bounds.

I recommend you finish with giving yourself a pat on the back, possibly adding in a couple of aerobatic maneouvres if you feel inspired to do so, get your friend to dial SWMBO, stagger out to the car and have a little nap on the way home. The following day you mightn't feel all that flash, but you'll know it wasn't your stout.

 

[reVoxAHB]

Revox, that post is worthy of a Pistolpatch Gold Star Award.

Haha! I was thinking of PistolPatch as I started my 9th paragraph! Can't sleep tonight, so there you go.

Do you really need to scrub them in soapy water and/or bleach? Does not getting the plate/grill up to cooking temp before adding the meat kill any bugs that may have bred on the plate since the last BBQ? My normal routine is to get the plate nice and hot then pour some beer on it and scrub it with some newspaper and that's about it. Is this OK?

Look, it's probably fine. I think you'll find most people do it this way, or instead of beer will cut a lemon in half and scrub the surface with each side.

Being a brewer, and a chef I tend to err on the side of caution more than most, with hygene.

Best case scenario is to remove the hot plate/grill after it's cooled down and wash in warm soapy water- and general area in and around the plate (drip plate if any, etc.) A rinse with hot boiling water should suffice.

I would do a bleach or better a grill-cleaner solution (a bit like soaking a chopping board overnight) every 6 months or so, depending on usage of course. Or just use the commercial bbq cleaners (I believe most have a bi-carb base). Thing is, most guys don't want to do this because they're afraid the plate will lose it's seasoning. It's really no big deal. Just get the plate back on as high of heat as you can to burn off any residue, scrape as required, and throw down a generous amount of fine salt- it will lift any rust or junk left behind, as well as season the plate. You can also use an oil that's tolerant to heat (like peanut oil) and burn it off, alternating with salt.

If you're not getting sick, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

And hey, you're officially not a sissy for using newspaper to scrub the hot surface :super:

 

[Zwickel]

Beer will not give you you food poisoning/

I subscribe

 

[berapnopod]

I agree with the above. It's highly unlikely that the beer was the cause of your friends' illness.

However, you CAN get sick from HB. Especially if your grains are stored in the wrong way and allow the growth of molds and fungi, such as fusarium. These can transfer mycotoxins right through to the finished beer. Sure, its rare, but it has happened.

If you use extracts, no problem, but its something to think about.

WJ

WJ, do you have a reference for this?
Berp.

 

[xtrabyte]

Beer will not give you you food poisoning/

I agree with Kai

 

[Whistlingjack]

WJ, do you have a reference for this?
Berp.

This article should get you started.

Beer will not give you food poisoning, though.

WJ

 

[ozpowell]

yeah yeah in mideval times it ensured that the water was ok to drink, not always a sure thing.. even kids drank beer for meals.. can u imagine mum? " drink up your beer so you can be nice and healthy" !!

For once I wish I was born 400 years ago.... 18 more years of my life enjoying beery goodness. :beer: Though, I guess I probably would only have expected to live till 50 :blink:

 

[devo]

beer has been known to get you so drunk that the effects can be similar to food poisoning. It's also know to help get you laid as well.

 

[ozpowell]

... It's also know to help get you laid as well.

Yeah - and sometimes even with people