'food Grade' Stainless

[chappo1970]

Yeah... but I think the pressure vessel standard is pretty well the same as the gas bottle one.. It has to be manufactured to meet or exceed that standard and pass test criteria to be passed and 'stamped' for filling... Try getting a gas bottle without a test stamp filled... Of course you could fill it yourself, but if you whacked yourself with it, when it all came out at the workcover enquiry, I doubt your Life insurance company would pay your missus and kids a razooo...

anyway this is just getting into semantics and it's a bloody moot argument...

You wouldn't be able to buy all the material to build a keg for the price you can buy a second hand one. Being a pressure vessel, you'd ad least have to buy pressed dished ends for it, then posts, PRV, a hatchway... Getting my point?

Then you have to hope like bejesus you were good enough with a TIG to achieve perfectly purged food grade welds all round the indside of the vessel, no mean feat... Or else you just spent all that money for two pots to put some hops in when you cut it in half because everything you put in it ends up infected

Agreed Schooey. :icon_cheers:

 

[muckanic]

I guess the overriding theme here is that despite the enthusiasm and access to materials and tools, the economics and probably more importantly the safety issues involved with attempting to produce one's own kegs does not stack up.

A 120L boiler would be higher on my list of priorities.

 

[bigfridge]

What a load of BS. The Australian Standards are a set of guidelines or STANDARDS and do not form any legal binding law or legislation but rather a set of "agreed" industry best practice guidelines. A product complying with a set of AS XXXX standards merely says it is in compliance with a set of guidelines, parameters and test regimes.

ABC or Australian Building Code which is an Australian Standard is often countered and debunked by Local Authority rules and regulations. Does this mean every house in Australia is not insured?

If I am believe this rubbish then anyone tinkering with a widget and blows oneself up then you will not be covered by insurance. Absolute crap! I would like to see this said legislation which proclaims the Australian Standard as the law. Would it not open the whole Australian Standard platform to litigation?

Chappo

Good Afternoon Chappo,

I do appreciate your assistance by putting words in my mouth (or post), but I am happy to stand by what I said. Nowhere in my post did I claim that the Australian Standard formed part of the law. What I did say was that I was involved in the sale of new kegs to major breweries and had recently investigated this matter.

Compliance with the Standard for keg manufacturers becomes law when it becomes a requirement of the state based OH&S legislation. Beer kegs are rated under AS 4343-2005 Pressure equipment - Hazard levels, and are listed as Hazard Level E. Recent changes have removed the need for the design of pressure vessels to be registered. You can refer to the Victorian OH&S regulations, clauses 3.5.47 and 3.5.50 and schedule 2 are the relevant parts. The registration process and the information required to be submitted is in Section 6.2 Division 2.

But as the requirement to register the design is no longer mandated by the states OH&S legislation, the onus to prove that a manuafactured item was 'fit for purpose' under the Trade Practises act would fall on the manufacturer. Unless you can show that your design, manufacturing and testing procedures met the relevant standard, you would have a difficult time proving that your pressure vessel was not at fault if anybody gets hurt or killed.

Remember that we are not talking about someone getting hurt drawing a beer - the injuries occur when people abuse the keg. News items like the following are fairly common:

Man killed by beer keg explosion
October 23, 2006

NEW MILFORD, Conn. (AP) - Investigators were trying to determine who tossed a beer keg into a burning barrel at a party, causing a deadly explosion that sent metal shards slicing through a crowd of people, police said.

The explosion early Sunday killed Sean Caselli, 22, of New Milford. Seven other people were taken to hospitals with burns and shrapnel wounds, police said. Caselli was struck in the neck by a piece of flying metal. Police Sgt. Lee Grabner said investigators interviewed witnesses Sunday to try to identify the person who threw a quarter-keg of beer into the flames, and to determine whether criminal charges should be filed.

Fires had been set in several barrels to keep people warm at the outdoor party in western Connecticut, said Police Captain Michael Mrazik. "This is a certain tragedy," said Police Chief Colin McCormack. "However, nothing I have been apprised of to this point in this investigation, which I caution is at the very early states, indicates a deliberate act on anyone's part."


This is why most European breweries call for 'burst disks' to be included in the keg during manufacture - allows it to fail in a controlled manner at a much lower pressure.

HTH,
David - Australasian Agent for Thiemann kegs

 

[Fatgodzilla]

Police Sgt. Lee Grabner said investigators interviewed witnesses Sunday to try to identify the person who threw a quarter-keg of beer into the flames, and to determine whether criminal charges should be filed.

David

Won't buy into this enthralling argument as I don't know (or really care) about keg construction. What the police really want to do is kick some arse - throwing away a quarter full keg ? Blasphemy. Clearly the english bitter was too cold.. but..

 

[chappo1970]

Another day .... another poster intending to do something illegal on AHB.

All beer kegs used in Australia must comply with AS 2971-2007 Serially produced pressure vessels. This standard describes the design, manufacturing and testing procedure required to ensure safe operation.

If someone gets hurt using a keg that does not comply then the manufacturer becomes liable. Even though you may not intend to sell your kegs if you get hurt it means that you may lose all insurance entitlements etc.

One thing I am not trying to do is put words into post.

Righto where is it illegal to manufacture your own kegs for your own use? Where? It's a pretty bold statement and in my opinion erronious and false.

If he was comtemplating manufacturing them for resale then I would agree with you wholly as there is a deemed "duty of care" which falls under your OH&S (workplace related No?), Australian Standards and the ACCC but the fact of the matter is he isn't, is he, therefore compliance is irrelivant is it not?

So I question if this is the case then all the various modifications us brewers make gear to suit brewing such as to Kettles, HLT's HERMS and RIMS etc would be illegal and landing each and everyone of us in hot water would it not?

Am I missing something here?

Oh and your example comes from America and unless we have given up our Commonwealth become 53rd State of the Union their laws and legal deteminations do not stand in this country.

Chappo

 

[bigfridge]

Won't buy into this enthralling argument as I don't know (or really care) about keg construction. What the police really want to do is kick some arse - throwing away a quarter full keg ? Blasphemy. Clearly the english bitter was too cold.. but..

It was probably US megaswill and hence practicaly identical to the water used to put the fire out !

If it was a quality beer then it is indeed a crime to waste it :icon_cheers:

 

[bigfridge]

Righto where is it illegal to manufacture your own kegs for your own use? Where? It's a pretty bold statement and in my opinion erronious and false.

I'm a pretty bold kinda guy :lol:

What you do in the privacy of your own home is always difficult to legislate, but if anything goes wrong the police and insurance company are going to start pointing fingers.

What you are advocating, and calling my advice 'erronious and false' is that someone should make their own pressure vessel. All that would need to happen is that someone mis-treats it and it can be considered a bomb - and this is illegal to build at home.

But even if it sits quietly in the fridge discharging its intended purpose of serving beer and someone borrow it, or steals it or the original poster gets sick of the infections coming from the porus welds and sells it to someone to cut up as a boiler, then it is no longer a 'keg for your own use'.

So I question if this is the case then all the various modifications us brewers make gear to suit brewing such as to Kettles, HLT's HERMS and RIMS etc would be illegal and landing each and everyone of us in hot water would it not?

Well, for a start they are not pressure vessels which changes the game completely.

And we would only be in 'hot water' if our modifications leaked :lol:

Anyway, while this has been fun and I always enjoy mixing my day job with my hobby, I think that I will let the matter rest.

Good Brew'n (and Explode'n)
David

 

[chappo1970]

Cheers David :icon_cheers:

 

[wakkatoo]

welcome to the forum LDFH.

Bit of a baptism of fire with your first few posts. As a suggestion, for your next topic you could choose from the following which will not get a heated discussion happening:

1. "my airlock has stopped bubbling, is my beer ready?"
2. "Will Aluminium brew pots kill me?"
3. "Help with my DIY electric wiring"
4. "Is silicone better than PVC?"

h34r:

Happy posting!

 

[chappo1970]

ROFL W :lol: :lol: :lol:

But you did forget...

5. Vinyl Hosing vs Silicon

Cheers

Chappo

BTW BF no hard feelings as I like a good debate. :beer:

 

[bigfridge]

But you did forget...

5. Vinyl Hosing vs Silicon

Cheers

Chappo

BTW BF no hard feelings as I like a good debate. :beer:

What about 'Is AG brewing better than Kits' or that perenial favourite from SA - 'No chill will kill ya with Botulism'.

Double :beer: to ya !

Cheers,
Dave

 

[Gavo]

You wouldn't be able to buy all the material to build a keg for the price you can buy a second hand one. Being a pressure vessel, you'd ad least have to buy pressed dished ends for it, then posts, PRV, a hatchway... Getting my point?

Well legalities of making a pressure vessel aside, I really have to agree with this. A corny keg can be bought from the above sponsors for $60 why build one. By the time you by posts etc you will probably be behind. Even if you save $20 each is it really worth your time? I love to build things to save money or just for the challenge but this wouldn't be one of those situations.
I made a marine grade ally fuel tank for my ski boat, I got the materials for niks but it took me a day to make. I saved around three hundred dollars. Would I do it again? For myself maybe, for someone else? No. Do I check it often for leaks? Hell yes.

I reckon I would put my SS welding skills into kettles and the like where I could save heaps and get some satisfaction from. (Although you probably would get satisfaction out of making kegs)

Cheers
Gavo.

 

[uniiqueuser]

Hydro testing is the way to go. As mentioned above, it is safer.

Just my 2 cents, but once you source your materials and all of the necessary fittings, i can't see it being cheaper than buying pre-made kegs.

If you want bigger than cornie's, try here: www.kegking.com.au

You can get a reconditioned 50l keg (ex-brewery and legal!!!) for between $130-$150. I reckon this will be cheaper once all is said and done and you've checked your maths on DIYing it.

Cheers SJ

Wow did this stir up a hornet's nest or what??!

It's okay, I survived the baptism of fire. The sort of information like above is helpful, and if there were more like it I might just get over my procrastination.

Trouble is I am not so much of a newbie to homebrewing. Admittedly I have not yet ventured into AG or used a lot of additives, but I have been using kits for close to 15 years, and the infections are only a recent problem, but not so bad that they produce foul smell or necessitate throwing it away. I usually make a decent brew, which may not be as good as some of the beer that you guys make, I get good bang for my buck and it is so much better (and cheaper) than bottled Yarra water.... how's it go? To each their own....

Good to see that there are some posters who have a bit of an engineering background. These posts were most helpful.

 

[porky]

Wow did this stir up a hornet's nest or what??!

Welcome to the "Gee I wonder why I bothered to ask this in the first place forum"

Make what you want for you own use.....

Read and try to separate the useful and the BS that is posted.

You will find that most posters have no idea what they are talking about.

But that should be obvious to you by now.

Try to find what useful info you can from the endless
dribble here.
There really is good info. Believe it or not.....
Oh yea, and some funny stuff as well :icon_cheers:

Flame suit on....
another hornet's nest on the way mate.

Cheers,
Bud