Flame Out Hop Additions Or Hop Tea For Nochill Method

[MarkBastard]

Geez Thirsty Boy I would have just called him a wanker.

 

[matti]

Thirsty you evil poser. :lol:
I have manage to listen to a few pod casts lately and it appears that Australia No-chill Kings because of AHB.
Hop addition in no-chill TB is very logically described that the isomerization continues and it would be really interesting to see the IBU measured to see at what rate the isomerization ware off as the temperature lowers.

:icon_offtopic: Some people chuck the cubes into pool and get get pool water into them. Rapid No-chill to no beer.

If you want aroma and no dry hopping chucking hop into cube is the go.

I just like to know how many No-chiller get break in there cube and would not the break material interfere or subdue the hop in the cube somewhat?



Matti

 

[Nick JD]

Very naive and pointless contribution to this discussion mate!
Hop sour. WTF?

There are two chemicals in hops that trigger the sour receptors in your tongue.

Your tongue can not and will not percieve anything but sweet, salt, bitter, sour and umami (msg).

EVERYTHING ELSE IS DONE WITH YOUR NOSE. So seperating "flavour" from "aroma" is nonsense when they are one and the same.

It would be naive to assume that flavour and aroma are distinct.

As an example ... I challenge you to make a beer with flavour, yet with no aroma. That graph seems to indicate this is possible.

If you've ever met someone who has lost their sense of smell (but not taste) you will learn that nothing they eat has any flavour.

 

[manticle]

The graph is not necessarily nonsense though. If you examine it you'll see that there is some level of aroma and some level of flavour present simultaneously at most points.

While the tongue is limited in its sensations, as you point out it is able to detect simple things such as bitter, sour etc. Therefore someone who has anosmia should still be able to detect these. Olfactory and taste are closely linked but they are not one and the same.

I'm assuming the graph is measuring perceived flavour rather than deciding which sensory organ it comes from so dismiss it too readily is to ignore its purpose (which is as a basic guide rather than as a dogmatic scientific assertion).

 

[Thirsty Boy]

I just like to know how many No-chiller get break in there cube and would not the break material interfere or subdue the hop in the cube somewhat?

Matti

With no-chill, you are always going to get cold break happening in the cube... I know that hot break takes out a chunk of bitterness, but I don't know about cold break? Its a slightly different beast. But I reckon its probably safe to assume that it does.

This is another reason why the hop teas are so effective. You can use them for aroma as talked about earlier, but you can also use them to trim bitterness (just gotta boil the tea for longer) and you need less hops for a given flavour impact. You don't lose bittering to break material, if you add later on in fermentation, you don't lose so much bittering stuck to the yeast - but you pay the piper a little if you try to get too much bitterness out of the tea.. because you lose utilisation due to high alpha acid concentration.

 

[Hutch]

seperating "flavour" from "aroma" is nonsense when they are one and the same.

It would be naive to assume that flavour and aroma are distinct.

The terms "Flavour" and "Aroma" are simply collectives used to categorise hop (and malt) aromatics in terms of how they are perceived in beer. Both are indeed detected by the nose receptors, however both are the result of our perceptions of different hop volatiles/oils.

"Aroma" compounds are higly volatile, and we smell them before tasting the beer.
"Flavour" compounds are the less volatile oils, which are perceived when the beer warms in the mouth releasing CO2.

The aroma/flavour graph shown in the original post simply indicates the rate which these compounds are boiled-off, with the highly volatile aroma compounds lasting a matter of minutes, and flavour compounds lasting considerably longer.

 

[Nick JD]

The terms "Flavour" and "Aroma" are simply collectives used to categorise hop (and malt) aromatics in terms of how they are perceived in beer. Both are indeed detected by the nose receptors, however both are the result of our perceptions of different hop volatiles/oils.

"Aroma" compounds are higly volatile, and we smell them before tasting the beer.
"Flavour" compounds are the less volatile oils, which are perceived when the beer warms in the mouth releasing CO2.

The aroma/flavour graph shown in the original post simply indicates the rate which these compounds are boiled-off, with the highly volatile aroma compounds lasting a matter of minutes, and flavour compounds lasting considerably longer.

Cheers, Hutch. Makes sense - and thanks for being willing to discuss the subject.