Fix For Crown Urn Boiling Issues

[Bribie G]

"Cuppa Tea, Father?"

Go ooorn Go ooorn Go ooorn

 

[whitegoose]

I think the main point of the boil dry protector is with the enclosed base at the bottom the heat from the element can cook everything underneath.

I'm pretty sure that's what happened to mine (see post #71). I think it still works, I just have to get around to replacing the wiring.

So do you think somehow "ventilating" the base would help to preserve the guts of a modified urn? Maybe taking the bottom plate partially or completely off (my urn sits on a latticed crate which would allow cold air to mingle) or cutting some holes in the base?

 

[MarkBastard]

The way I see it whitegoose...

The urn produces 2400 watts of energy. If your urn was empty then all of that energy would end up heating the air and metal parts and quickly result in failure.

If the urn is full of liquid, that energy should mostly go into the liquid as heat energy. Once the liquid is boiling, the heat should be boiling off as quickly as it's being produced.

I would thus think the biggest risk would be not having any liquid, having the lid on while boiling not allowing enough energy to disperse, and perhaps having the element covered in a scale, or a BIAB bag, or something like that, not allowing the heat to pass into the liquid and then into the air.

I imagine ventilating the area under the element wouldn't definitely work, but it's an interesting idea none the less.

I personally would like some more / better information from the people that have had the problem. I would like to to list as much as possible about how they used and or modified the urn. Did they allow the element to be on with grain in there for example? Even if they had a cake rack in there to stop the bag from touching the urn etc. Did they have crud on the bottom of the pot they didn't clean off? Did they have insulation wrapped around the outside of the urn? Were they brewing indoors or out?

 

[leiothrix]

Mine died during a boil. Nothing in the urn except wort. No insulation either.

Only mods were changing the stock tap to a three-piece and pickup tube (which I can't see affecting anything) and removing the boil dry protector.

I think the significant difference between this brew day and any other was that I attempted to do a second batch on the same day, and it all just got too hot.

Mine was cycling on and off. I think the base got hot enough to trip the thermostat (set at 110*) to make it cycle. I'm pretty sure that if I get around to replacing the wiring that it will be fine. Not going to use it as a kettle again though.

I think that removing the base would mean that you'd lose a lot of heating ability, especially if it is actively ventilated (e.g. a fan). The element is actually under the urn, not inside it, so I think you'd just end up blowing the heat away.

At the end of the day I think that the urn is made to keep coffee hot, not to continuously boil wort. For brewing purposes it would make a great HLT, but not much else.

I got myself a 50L S/S pot to replace the urn, and am going to fit it with an element, temp sensor, site guage and valve. Bit scary drilling in to a pot that cost > $200 though.

Rob.

 

[alexen]

Evening everyone.

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I'm looking at getting a 40L Crown Urn (probably concealed element) from craftbrewer in the coming weeks. This will purely be used for boiling wort from my mash tun. I don't want the hassle of an expensive SS pot, burner and gas bottle.

Before I invest, I just want to know if anyone actually has one which is unmodified, has lasted a few years and can sustain a rolling boil indoors? After reading through this and other threads all afternoon, it almost seems I can either settle for a half boil, or modify the cut off switch and possibly have it die on me rather soon. I don't mind a bit of extra cleaning work, so if an exposed element model is more ideal thats no issue.

Keen on your feedback,

Cheers,

Stew

 

[tavas]

Birko...You know you want too!!

Go on, be tempted by the dark side.

 

[Bribie G]

I have a Birko and a Crown, both exposed element. On balance I prefer the Crown. A couple of advantages: easier element to clean, far more robust tap and being taller and thinner there is less boil-off which can be an advantage with a larger grain bill in a 40L urn, if you like a vigorous "rolling" boil and don't want to top up mid boil. Cheaper too.

However, Mark^bastard reports a reasonable boil with the concealed element job using a camping mat for insulation. Really cleaing the element is only a few minutes job with a kitchen scourer pad (green one) and a periodic tickle up with citric acid.

 

[MarkBastard]

Even on the concealed elements they can be a bitch to clean just above the element. There's a circle of SS on the bottom that is obviously just above a coiled element, and scum seems to stick to this much more and seems a lot harder to get off. No doubt it's easier than an exposed element but you do really need to reach in and give it a good scrub, so I reckon the cleaning aspect isn't as big as people say. Also in the concealed model the temperature probe needs to be cleaned to an extent and it's very fiddly. It has a cover that comes off and then a copper looking probe.

If you really hate cleaning you can probably just use PBW and I'm sure it'd eat it all off, particularly if you boiled it.

And Bribie, I have done the mod + camping mat and I've brewed inside and out. Brewing inside the boil is almost too good, outside it was probably just right.

I'm going to un-mod it and see how I go.

 

[smilinggilroy]

Have just purchased a current model Birko on evilpay:- $273.00 delivered to my door.
Cheapest Crown I could find was going to cost $37 more(concealed element).
Spoke to Birko, asking the difference of newer model and was told the element was shaped different (should be easier to clean?) and more efficient and a better sight glass.
Sizes-The birko is 5mm shorter and 14mm wider.
As for cleaning, most brewers from what I have read use a cleaning pad with little effort. Try using bi-carb and vinegar or CLR periodically.
Have read BribieG has done many a brew and his Birko is still going strong.

My 2c worth.

 

[camedmeades]

Hey guys, am just about to move into AG brewing (BIAB) and have been doing a bit of research on urns vs pot+burner

Up until this thread, I was strongly leaning towards the urn. Crown sell seconds (visual difficiencies. small dents, broken boxes etc) for $196+gst but was looking to pay a bit more and get a Birko... are all Birkos exposed elements (10090x0 model range) or are the new ones concealed. Also, has anyone had any trouble with achieving a rolling boil with a Birko.

Bottom line, would you pay $50 more for the Birko over the Crown? I know I have all the factual information I can get but still want some subjective opinions to pursuade my feeble decision making abilities...

I'm wiring up my shed in the next few months anyway so will make sure to get a 15a dedicated circuit...

 

[MarkBastard]

BribieG has both a Crown and a Birko, I would suggest you get his opinion on it. From memory he likes the exposed element Crown a lot.

 

[JestersDarts]

Hey guys, am just about to move into AG brewing (BIAB) and have been doing a bit of research on urns vs pot+burner

Up until this thread, I was strongly leaning towards the urn. Crown sell seconds (visual difficiencies. small dents, broken boxes etc) for $196+gst but was looking to pay a bit more and get a Birko... are all Birkos exposed elements (10090x0 model range) or are the new ones concealed. Also, has anyone had any trouble with achieving a rolling boil with a Birko.

Bottom line, would you pay $50 more for the Birko over the Crown? I know I have all the factual information I can get but still want some subjective opinions to pursuade my feeble decision making abilities...

I'm wiring up my shed in the next few months anyway so will make sure to get a 15a dedicated circuit...

From what I can see - they all have the same function, depends on what you want it for, and how you are going to use it.

Concealed elements have been reported to burn out with modding,
or you could not mod it, but have a lesser boil..reportedly.
exposed elements need to be celaned a little more thouroughly
you need to protect your bag from an exposed element it if B'ingIAB, but not always the case if you use the urn in certain ways, like not having the elemt on when bag in there.

I have no experience in any of the above, but have been reading all about it over the last couple of days here on AHB.

I have a concealed element crown urn, that is going to be my HLT - and have been reading about BIAB from the urn until i've got a few other AG bits and bobs together... dont want to wreck my urn using it for not what I had intended.

If i was going to BIAB urn style, I would have probably gone exposed element, and birko (because theyre slightly cheaper... apparently)

but i probably won't - and it want a consideration when buying mine

 

[TheYank]

How many people are still using a modified Crown urn to boil wort? Going back through this thread I can see three people have burned out there wires / element after the mod. I'm trying to gage how much of a risk there is of this happening. If there are 100 people out there who use a modified Crown with a concealed element and have had no trouble then maybe the risk of this happening is not that great?

 

[Pollux]

Mine is still modded but now only serves as a HLT, I might get around to returning it to it's normal state, when I can be arsed.

 

[MarkBastard]

How many people are still using a modified Crown urn to boil wort? Going back through this thread I can see three people have burned out there wires / element after the mod. I'm trying to gage how much of a risk there is of this happening. If there are 100 people out there who use a modified Crown with a concealed element and have had no trouble then maybe the risk of this happening is not that great?

Mine is still working fine. I inspected the insides recently and no signs of any issues.

 

[theredone]

gee i wish i read this yesterday, i now have about 30ltrs of what i can only assume will be 2.5-3% golden ale, due to very little boil off

 

[afromaiko]

I had my sights set on a Crown concealed element urn until I read this about the problems with them burning out after modification.

But, do the exposed Crowns and Birkos also need to have this mod done to maintain a rolling boil?

 

[Spork]

I have a new, unmodded, crown with concealed element. Minimal insulation (for now), cool outside, I get a decent enough boil @ about 96c with the lid off. This is hot enough to kill the bugs, and I get a fair rate of evaporation too - probably a smidgen over %10/hour.
Can't see why I need it to boil more vigorously really. It mightn't be "Rotarua", but the wort certainly moves around a lot at that temperature. Looked close enough to "rolling" to me. Todays wort was 1.055, so not lite beer. Every time I checked, it was heating - ie: little red light was on.

 

[ianh]

I also have an unmodified Crown 40l urn and get an evaporation rate of 3.3 litres per hour (about 12%).

The only problem I found was after the mash, material settled on top of the concealed element, this caused the temperature cut out to operate. I just use my paint scraper to remove this material and don't have any cut out issues.

 

[hodges4]

I also have an unmodified Crown 40 litre urn. I place the lid 3/4 on and can get a very vigorous boil. I regulate the boil by how far the lid covers the urn and leaving it around 3/4 on there is no risk of boil-over. I stop it from slipping all the way on by using a couple of clothes pegs around the rim. Seems to work fine for me. I'm boiling off up to 4 litres/hr.