First Wort Hopping

[marky_mark]

Hey Guys,

I've read a number of things that mention and discuss first wort hopping, but with the first AG happening this morning I just want to be sure about the way i'm going about this. Brewing a czech pilsner...

4.5Kg JW Pilsner
300g Weyermann Light Munich
200g Weyermann Carapils

80g Saaz Pellets AA 3.3%
6 Saaz Hop Plugs AA 4.0%

My plan is to first wort hop four of the plugs as I sparge and as the wort is brought to the boil... the question I have is if these plugs are left in the boil for the whole 75 min, is it going to drastically increase the IBU's when used in conjunction with my standard 40g pellet addition at 60 min??? I've gathered the answer is no but i'd really like to be definative... a 60-70 IBU pilsner is not exactly on the cards... My understanding is that the period of steeping the hops alters the volatile compounds responsible for aroma and flavour and locks them into solution preventing them being boiled off... but are the bittering acids also altered or broken down altogether so that the IBU's aren't increased significantly???

Thanks in advance guys.

Cheers,

Mark

 

[sintax69]

So with this first wort hopping when do u add the hops begin of mash end mash start boil and do i drop the normal bittering hops

 

[marky_mark]

They are added in the kettle as you run your mash out and then sparge water into the kettle...that way they steep there at your sparge temperature or 70-75 C or there abouts. I'm under the impression that you don't reduce bittering hops at all but rather just add your late addition hops as the First Wort hops rather than at the end... but its a big leap of faith to take hey...

Cheers

Mark

 

[MHB]

Just counting on my fingers
Around 45-50 IBU
But its 1:50 AM and i have been drinking beer so I would check that.
Someone will be able to run the numbers on Beer Smith or Promash in the morning.
MHB

 

[Kai]

I tried counting on my fingers but I stuck at least two of them in my eye.

Short answer, if you first wort hop and leave your hops in there then they are of course going to count towards bittering. If you take them out once your wort boils then they won't.

Long answer I've heard that the interaction between the hops and the hot break reduces the bitterness, but if it does then I reckon it'd only be slightly. Don't quote me on it though but.

 

[marky_mark]

With 52g added as a first wort hop addition
and then 40g at 60min
and then another 40g at 30 min
14g at 15 min
and 14g at 5 min

If I'm getting all the bitterness out of the FWH addition during a 75min boil then I'm looking at a LOT of IBU's... if the bitterness of the FWH addition is reduced then it may turn out alright...

But whether or not to reduce the bittering hop amounts from the same recipe that doesnt use the FWH addition???? Thats the big question!!

Cheers

 

[Duff]

Marky_Mark,

Here's your receipe in Promash. It gives 57 IBU with the additions mentioned, clearly too high. If you halve the amount of FWH to 26gms (which I auumed were the plugs), it brings it back to 45 IBU and within the style. Should be all you need to do.

Cheers.

----------

Marky_Mark

A ProMash Recipe Report

BJCP Style and Style Guidelines
-------------------------------

02-A Pilsner, German Pilsner (Pils)

Min OG: 1.044 Max OG: 1.050
Min IBU: 25 Max IBU: 45
Min Clr: 2 Max Clr: 5 Color in SRM, Lovibond

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 23.00 Wort Size (L): 23.00
Total Grain (kg): 5.00
Anticipated OG: 1.050 Plato: 12.49
Anticipated SRM: 3.5
Anticipated IBU: 57.7
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 75 Minutes

Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------

Evaporation Rate: 15.00 Percent Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 28.31 L
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.041 SG 10.23 Plato

Formulas Used
-------------

Brewhouse Efficiency and Predicted Gravity based on Method #1, Potential Used.
Final Gravity Calculation Based on Points.
Hard Value of Sucrose applied. Value for recipe: 46.2100 ppppg
% Yield Type used in Gravity Prediction: Fine Grind Dry Basis.

Color Formula Used: Morey
Hop IBU Formula Used: Rager

Additional Utilization Used For Plug Hops: 2 %
Additional Utilization Used For Pellet Hops: 10 %
Additional Utilization Used For First Wort Hops: -10 %


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
90.0 4.50 kg. JWM Export Pilsner Australia 1.037 2
6.0 0.30 kg. Weyermann Munich I Germany 1.038 8
4.0 0.20 kg. Weyermann Carapils (Carafoam) Germany 1.037 2

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
14.00 g. Saazer Pellet 3.30 1.1 5 min.
14.00 g. Saazer Pellet 3.30 1.8 15 min.
40.00 g. Saazer Pellet 3.30 9.6 30 min.
40.00 g. Saazer Pellet 3.30 18.8 60 min.
52.00 g. Saazer Plug 4.00 26.4 First WH


Yeast
-----

 

[Barry]

Good Day
I would leave the FWH hops and reduce the boil hops and leave out the 30 min hops. FWH adds to flavour well but you will need a couple of hop plugs at the end for aroma IMHO.
PS I now only FWH with noble hops because I don't care for the flavour from other hops when using this method. Others have had different results.

 

[berapnopod]

I believe FWH will add about 2/3 of the bitterness you would expect from a 60 minute boil.


Berp.

 

[tdh]

Like Barry suggested - reduce the 'boil' hops.

Have you got promash?

tdh

 

[vlbaby]

Like Barry suggested - reduce the 'boil' hops.

Have you got promash?

tdh

[post="112637"][/post]​

Good advice there. Get yourself promash!

or you could join the dark side and get beersmith h34r:

VL.

 

[Trent]

Marky Mark
Whenever I FWH, I only use about 30g and count it as a 60 min addition as far as IBU's go (I dont have any brewing software to count it for me, so have to do it all by paper and pencil, as per Palmer's hop utilisation table). I would go as Duff suggested, and only FWH 2 plugs, but that is just me
VL Baby
I was actually looking at promash vs beersmith last night, though neither area available on Mac, and one of the FAQ's on Beersmith seemed a little wierd to me. It was (apparently) "Why is your software so cool?" I'm sure it does a good job anyway, cool or not.
All the best
Trent

 

[mje1980]

I calc my FWH as a 20 min addition. It is easy, and seems to work out for me. I have also done beers with only FWH, calculating them as a 20 min addition, and one of the beers was calc'd at 28 odd ibu's. It tasted a tiny bit less bitter than many other beers of the same gravity and same bitterness that i had brewed previously. I think SOME flavour comes through, depending on hop variety, but not much aroma, if any, HOWEVER, i have only used a few different varieties. I have repeated this with the same results, smooth bitterness, a little flavour. There are a lot of grey areas with FWH, and what some people like, others wont. In my humble opinion, it is worth trying at least, and personally, i will continue to do it, as i do believe the bitterness is much smoother.


P.S, john palmer's book, and website ( i presume ) has a chapter that explains why fwh give less bitterness even though they are in the boil for 60+ mins.

EDIT, just a bit of useless info, im sipping on an all fwh bitter at the moment. Yum Yum !!

 

[Kai]

Marky Mark
Whenever I FWH, I only use about 30g and count it as a 60 min addition as far as IBU's go (I dont have any brewing software to count it for me, so have to do it all by paper and pencil, as per Palmer's hop utilisation table). I would go as Duff suggested, and only FWH 2 plugs, but that is just me
VL Baby
I was actually looking at promash vs beersmith last night, though neither area available on Mac, and one of the FAQ's on Beersmith seemed a little wierd to me. It was (apparently) "Why is your software so cool?" I'm sure it does a good job anyway, cool or not.
All the best
Trent

[post="112652"][/post]​

Just as a quick aside, if you're looking for brew software for the mac there are a couple of useful apps available:

http://www.kentplacesoftware.com/products/BeerAlchemy.html
http://www.beertools.com/store/product.php?prodid=275

 

[T.D.]

I calc my FWH as a 20 min addition. It is easy, and seems to work out for me. I have also done beers with only FWH, calculating them as a 20 min addition, and one of the beers was calc'd at 28 odd ibu's. It tasted a tiny bit less bitter than many other beers of the same gravity and same bitterness that i had brewed previously. I think SOME flavour comes through, depending on hop variety, but not much aroma, if any, HOWEVER, i have only used a few different varieties. I have repeated this with the same results, smooth bitterness, a little flavour. There are a lot of grey areas with FWH, and what some people like, others wont. In my humble opinion, it is worth trying at least, and personally, i will continue to do it, as i do believe the bitterness is much smoother.


P.S, john palmer's book, and website ( i presume ) has a chapter that explains why fwh give less bitterness even though they are in the boil for 60+ mins.

EDIT, just a bit of useless info, im sipping on an all fwh bitter at the moment. Yum Yum !!

[post="112754"][/post]​

I'm the same but opposite

I put the fwh addition in as 60min and have found that although the bitterness is "smoother" it is slightly "bigger" than a regular 60min addition.

I am still struggling with the notion of putting them in as anything less than a 60min addition - after all, they are in the kettle for the full 60mins and also some time prior when the wort is very close to 100 degrees. Of course, if it works for you then that's all that matters!! :super:

 

[Joel]

I usually boil for 90min. No hops for the first 30min and then add hops as per normal, ie a 60min addition, then aroma and flavour additions. How will FWH'ing work with a boil schedule like this? Anyone else do a similar thing?

 

[T.D.]

I would put a fwh addition in as 90min in your case Joel, but that's just my method.

 

[stephen]

I just punched some figures into promash and found that there is a drop in bitterness from when doing FWH compared to 60 min boil.

FWH: 31.89 IBU's
60 min 35.44 IBU's.

Hope this clarifies things a bit.

Steve

 

[Trough Lolly]

*Ping* Marky_Mark...
How did your pils turn out? Did you take a sample or is it lagering???
I just kegged an oatmeal stout that I first wort hopped...
Cheers,
TL

 

[hupnupnee]

What happens if you shorten the boil?
My understanding is that the purpose of the boil is to precipitate proteins and add bitterness. If the bitterness is already there from FWH then can you reduce the time of the boil.

Hot break seems to come out after about 10 minutes of boiling?


Cheers
Tim