First Time Use Of A Wyeast Smack Pack

[caleb]

Hello everyone.

I've just used a Wyeast liquid yeast for the first time - "3725 Bier de Garde" - and I'm a bit worried that it is dead, so I'm hoping to hear from the voice of experience (i.e. all you AHB members )

I recently ordered this from Craftbrewer. However, thanks to Fastway Couriers, my parcel spent a week in their Sydney office before they bothered to deliver it to me...

The 3725 was actually slightly swollen when I received it, compared to the others, which were totally flat. I broke the inner pouch and left it for 3 or 4 hours. I thought it swelled a LITTLE bit more after that, but not much. I thought "OK, this is all its going to do" and pitched it into a 26 deg wort last night around 7pm.

I found that I had only broken ONE of the inner pouches, not two, and maybe that would account for limited swelling. However, from what I've read, these things should puff up like a balloon, not just become slightly thicker...

As of now, 2:30pm next day, there is absolutely NO sign of fermentation. Not even a little froth. Only time I've ever had such a slow start before was one of those silly Cascade yeasts, which took two days to start, and resulted in a horrible infected batch...

So, anyone had any experience with the 3725? Is it a slow starter? Or has "Fastway" let my yeast die. Was the fact the pack was a little swollen to begin with significant? Should I wait, or pitch in the dry Belgian T-58 I have instead?

 

[dj1984]

did you make a starter????

 

[caleb]

did you make a starter????

No, I thought the idea of these things was that you didn't have to, as the nutrient mix pouch acted as a "starter" in itself.

 

[razE]

I have had some packs of wyeast take 6 - 8 hours to fully swell. I would give it another 24hrs before you decide the yeast is dead. The yeast are ment to stay refrigerated but i saw one very old packet of wyeast that had been left somewhere upstairs out of the fridge at my LHBS and the packet still swelled after popping the nutrient pack and it looked years old. I believe it was in a blue packet.

 

[razE]

The nutrient pack in my mind is more a design to show healthy active yeast but i guess it is a very small starter.

 

[wambesi]

There is no need to do a starter with these packs as they are designed to inoculate a full batch.

In saying that it is always a good idea to do one if you think the yeast is not as healthy as it should be.
In my expereince, I leave packs for at least 24hrs and by that time they are usually pretty swelled.
The nutrient inside is not crucial, and the yeast will work fine without it, maybe a little slower to the crunch.

I have had a few batches take 2-3 days to show signs, if your sanitisation is good you shouldn't get infections either.
Give it a little more time and see how it goes.

Bad luck with Fastway, I have had quite a few deliveries from Ross via Fastway within three days or ordering.

 

[MarkBastard]

I bought a wyeast smack pack last weekend. Pitched Sunday morning and I don't think I noticed anything until Monday night. By Tuesday there was a nice creamy head. I was expecting it to work quicker than a dry yeast so I too was a bit worried at first, but it's fine.

 

[sinkas]

Thats not really right wambesi,

If I wewre making a BDG I would make a starter, a few days before hand to make sure i wasnt wasitng my brewing time with a dud batch of yeast.

PLus for a higher gravity beer, look at www.mrmalty.com pitching rate calculator for good guide

 

[kram]

No, I thought the idea of these things was that you didn't have to, as the nutrient mix pouch acted as a "starter" in itself.

I find it's always a good idea to check the date of the smack pack so that you can determine or atleast estimate if there's any loss in yeast cell count and make a starter accordingly.

 

[warrenlw63]

Just one of the risks of mail-orders Caleb. It's probably fine but to be certain I agree with sinkas when in doubt make a starter. Doesn't take all that long and at least it will set your mind at rest.

Warren -

 

[wambesi]

Thats not really right wambesi,

If I wewre making a BDG I would make a starter, a few days before hand to make sure i wasnt wasitng my brewing time with a dud batch of yeast.

PLus for a higher gravity beer, look at www.mrmalty.com pitching rate calculator for good guide

True if you are aiming for a higher gravity beer or even a lager it is ideal to make up a starter - hey I do them, but I also split my packs onto slants as well.

But the packs are designed for a "standard" batch, ie. 23L of normal gravity - but just what is normal?
And what you say about dud yeasts is right, it comes down to what you want to do.

 

[BoilerBoy]

There are so many things that effect the health of yeast most listed above I reckon as a golden rule
"always make a starter"
It just removes all the guess work and therefore the angst of hoping.

Cheers,
BB

 

[Weizguy]

Hello everyone.

I've just used a Wyeast liquid yeast for the first time - "3725 Bier de Garde" - and I'm a bit worried that it is dead, so I'm hoping to hear from the voice of experience (i.e. all you AHB members )

I recently ordered this from Craftbrewer. However, thanks to Fastway Couriers, my parcel spent a week in their Sydney office before they bothered to deliver it to me...

The 3725 was actually slightly swollen when I received it, compared to the others, which were totally flat. I broke the inner pouch and left it for 3 or 4 hours. I thought it swelled a LITTLE bit more after that, but not much. I thought "OK, this is all its going to do" and pitched it into a 26 deg wort last night around 7pm.

I found that I had only broken ONE of the inner pouches, not two, and maybe that would account for limited swelling. However, from what I've read, these things should puff up like a balloon, not just become slightly thicker...

As of now, 2:30pm next day, there is absolutely NO sign of fermentation. Not even a little froth. Only time I've ever had such a slow start before was one of those silly Cascade yeasts, which took two days to start, and resulted in a horrible infected batch...

So, anyone had any experience with the 3725? Is it a slow starter? Or has "Fastway" let my yeast die. Was the fact the pack was a little swollen to begin with significant? Should I wait, or pitch in the dry Belgian T-58 I have instead?

If you can find the package, check the manufacture date. Within 3 months should be OK. I wouldn't expect an old yeast from a reliable online business (unless you purchased at a discount price due to age).

Always check MrMalty.com if unsure of how much yeast to pitch.
Never trust an imported yeast for pitch-ability, as is, especially an older yeast. You can and will be disappointed, although not every time.
Wait to ensure that the yeast is active before pitching.

You are likely to have underpitched. A cool ferment is likely to start slower too. What's your ferment temp?

The good news is that as long as the sanitation is good, your yeast is likely to multiply and ferment your beer. Just be aware of unexpected medicinal flavours in the beer.

I must go now and relieve some pressure on a bulging pack of Wyeast American ale (very cheap too, based on the March '08 MFG date). Popped up and nearly bursting within 1 days. The seams are seriously strained.

Beerz
Les

 

[TidalPete]

Hello everyone.

I've just used a Wyeast liquid yeast for the first time - "3725 Bier de Garde" - and I'm a bit worried that it is dead, so I'm hoping to hear from the voice of experience (i.e. all you AHB members

I recently ordered this from Craftbrewer. However, thanks to Fastway Couriers, my parcel spent a week in their Sydney office before they bothered to deliver it to me...

The 3725 was actually slightly swollen when I received it, compared to the others, which were totally flat. I broke the inner pouch and left it for 3 or 4 hours. I thought it swelled a LITTLE bit more after that, but not much. I thought "OK, this is all its going to do" and pitched it into a 26 deg wort last night around 7pm.

I found that I had only broken ONE of the inner pouches, not two, and maybe that would account for limited swelling. However, from what I've read, these things should puff up like a balloon, not just become slightly thicker...

As of now, 2:30pm next day, there is absolutely NO sign of fermentation. Not even a little froth. Only time I've ever had such a slow start before was one of those silly Cascade yeasts, which took two days to start, and resulted in a horrible infected batch...

So, anyone had any experience with the 3725? Is it a slow starter? Or has "Fastway" let my yeast die. Was the fact the pack was a little swollen to begin with significant? Should I wait, or pitch in the dry Belgian T-58 I have instead?

Two inner packs? In all the Wyeast Smack Packs I've had there has only been one. You might have struck it lucky & the production line slipped two nutrient packs into your smack pack?

Wait mate! Give it another 36 hours before resorting to pitching a replacement yeast. A good, splashing stir to create oxygen into the wort with a sanitised paddle or whatever should help get things on their way.
It's not good that your yeast was stuck in some courier shop for all that time (Probably accounts for the slight swelling due to heat) but yeasts are hardy little buggers & I think all will be ok.

I have just made a starter from my 2nd last tube of generation one 3538 Leuven (Two years & five months old) & can see a little movement after 5 hours on the stir plate. Another testimony of the toughness of these little buggers.

An idea for the future ----- Split your Wyeast Smack Pack into units up to 10 & keep the nutrient pack for your starters or your kettle.

TP :beer:

Ps --- Just saw you post Les & am sorry to say that CraftBrewer does not give a discount for their liquid yeasts like Grain & Grape do but I live in hope. :icon_cheers:

 

[caleb]

IT'S ALIVE

Just got home and I now have a healthy inch of krausen and a vigorously bubbling airlock.

Funny, three hours ago there was NO sign of anything... not even a slight foam.

Guess I just panicked with something new - the lack of swell on the smack pack combined with lack of activity had me really worried. And, as mentioned above, I also expected these yeasts to start working quicker - being already hydrated AND getting a start from the nutrient pack you'd ASSUME them to kick off quicker than a pack of dried yeast, but, it seems you'd assume wrong...

I imagine it depends greatly on the actual strain of yeast, and with Wyeast, there are a LOT.

Thanks everyone for the help and ideas. This seems a really active forum with lots of nice helpful people.

So, anyone actually tried 3725? What can I expect?

 

[jonocarroll]

No one seems to have asked yet, though I figured this was a fairly big point - was the smack pack an 'Activator' or 'Propagator'? Activators have 100 Billion cells, which is supposedly enough for a '5 gallon' batch, but Propagators 'need' a starter, as they only have 25 Billion cells. Did you follow the instructions on the back? It's good to hear it's going now, but if it was a propagator pack and you just pitched it you probably underpitched, hence the lag time.

 

[buttersd70]

No one seems to have asked yet, though I figured this was a fairly big point - was the smack pack an 'Activator' or 'Propagator'? .

The reason that nobody asked is probably because in the OP it said it was purchased from craftbrewer....and afaik (99% sure), Ross only sells activator packs.

 

[caleb]

Yeah, it was an Activator, not a Propogator.

Good for "5 gallons of wort (up to 1.060 SG)" according to the back.

Now, I will confess the OG of this beer is 1.078...

BUT, I'm sure it will be OK. I've done a 1.092 OG Belgian abbey style using nothing more than a pack of dry Saf WB-06 and some dregs from a Rochefort bottle (tipped straight in) and it was great.

Anyway, the 3725 is now working hard and looks great, with temp sitting at about 30 deg.

(Before you respond like this :angry: - the official recommended range for this yeast is 21 - 35 deg - one reason I chose it over some others, so relax... B) )

 

[Ross]

good to hear it's going strong Celeb...

3 to 4 hours is not really enough time for a wyeast pack to swell (though some have swollen while the customer is still in the shop, when we've smacked them). Smack the pack 24 hours before use & give it a little longer to get going.

+++

Pete.... We haven't had to look at discounting yeast yet (even though it's heavilly discounted from the start) as we don't know what an old yeast looks like yet B)


cheers Ross

 

[TidalPete]

Pete.... We haven't had to look at discounting yeast yet (even though it's heavilly discounted from the start) as we don't know what an old yeast looks like yet B)
cheers Ross

I can well believe that Ross. :icon_cheers:

TP :beer: