First Kit Great 2nd One Not As Good, Why?

[keezawitch]

Maybe the first beer had a stuck fermentation and the second one didn't? When i was kit/extract brewing a lot of my beers would get stuck around the 1016-1020 range, which made them taste sweet. HOwever sometimes the same brew using the same ingredients from the same shop (and probably same malt barrel) would attenuate to 1012. I wasn't very good at brewing back then though.

Taking hydrometer readings is very important as it can let you know whats happening with your beer.

If you can, get a temperature controlled fermentation fridge and some norinse sanitiser. These two things made my kits from 'getting pissed juice' to drinkable beer. As has been said, lager yeast at 24C is probably not going to give you a tasty beverage.

fridge thing way off short on the folding stuff, i will get the norinse sanitiser do you recom a powder or liquid one

 

[ShredMaster]

we liked it sweeter, if i drop the temp on future kits this should slow the yeast will that make it sweeter and could it also give it a creamier mouth feel, these are what is missing in second batch, second batch quite ok to drink just not so lip smacking as the first

NO!!

No no no no no no no no!

Well yes, but hell no.

While the temp will make the yeast sleep nice and peacefully, slowing them fermenting it out completely, they will wake up in the bottles and continue to ferment and thats how bottle bombs happen. If you replace the BE stuff or dextrose with dried malt extract it will leave more unfermentable sugars in there and leave it a bit sweeter.

You don't want to "stop" the yeast doing what they are born to do, you just want to make them not eat the sugars that make the beer sweet. Also, look into lactose additions if you want it really sweet.

Safety first: always let your beer finish fermenting completely before bottling it.

Good luck!


Cheers,
Shred.

 

[keezawitch]

i know to take an og reading and then start taking another reading 7 days later and bottle when i get the same 2 days in a row, what other times would i take readings, when i have done them after 7 days they are the same 2days in a row straight away. so i am bottling on day 8

 

[ShredMaster]

Sounds about right. I reckon try adding more DME to it. I now dont use ANY dex/sugar unless I want to make it a bit drier, the malt gives it some nice creamyness (to me) and leaves it quite sweet.

1 kit + 1.5kg DME tastes great, slightly strong but damn nice depending on the kit. The last Coopers APA I used 2kg malt and was a really really nice balanced beer, but bloody potent, brought the bitterness down and added the body I was after.


Cheers,
Shred.

 

[Rina]

Did they have the same original gravity and finishing gravity? If they didn't that would explain why one was sweeter than the other.

Dropping the temperature will not make it more sweeter adding more malt extract (will increase alcohol %) or lactose (alcohol % will be the same) will.

I recommend you try to meet 'us' halfway and skimming this site http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/index.html as well as the link manticle posted. Also contrary to what Coopers Lager says it comes packaged with an ale yeast.

 

[keezawitch]

NO!!

No no no no no no no no!

Well yes, but hell no.

While the temp will make the yeast sleep nice and peacefully, slowing them fermenting it out completely, they will wake up in the bottles and continue to ferment and thats how bottle bombs happen. If you replace the BE stuff or dextrose with dried malt extract it will leave more unfermentable sugars in there and leave it a bit sweeter.

You don't want to "stop" the yeast doing what they are born to do, you just want to make them not eat the sugars that make the beer sweet. Also, look into lactose additions if you want it really sweet.

Safety first: always let your beer finish fermenting completely before bottling it.

Good luck!


Cheers,
Shred.

ta i wouldnt bottle until readings where right figured it would take longer , but dont want bombs, would i replace all the dextrose with dried malt extract wouldnt that change the flavour to a more malty taste, ok for me i like a malty brew, but really making for husband and sons, I dont drink much. I have a hobgoblin in thats for me and it will probably last a long time so last bottles will be well aged. If the hobgoblin isnt sweet enough would you suggest the use of lactose as an addition next time. also if next brews have 2 more going need sweetening would you suggest lactose in next brew.

 

[keezawitch]

Did they have the same original gravity and finishing gravity? If they didn't that would explain why one was sweeter than the other.

Dropping the temperature will not make it more sweeter adding more malt extract (will increase alcohol %) or lactose (alcohol % will be the same) will.

I recommend you try to meet 'us' halfway and skimming this site http://www.howtobrew.com/section1/index.html as well as the link manticle posted. Also contrary to what Coopers Lager says it comes packaged with an ale yeast.

yep gravities the same thats one of the confusing things everything was identical, i will skim these articles. Well wont be adding extra malt, husband is diabetic and need to keep the alcohol under the 4% lactose might be the way. ale yeast ay, should be lager yeast shouldnt it. If all 4 brews i have in taste different its gotta be the kit as i have done the same thing with each and all readings are identical, think i will print up articles so i have them to refer to if they are printable

 

[ShredMaster]

Tbh, I've never used lactose (somewhat lactose intolerant so I dont drink milk and figure my beer might make me feel the same way if i stick lactose into it). But I have read PLENTY of stuff where people use lactose.

My trick is the malt and sticking almost up to "too much" in there. It does change the malt character that way but I love it. You could probably dig out some brew software and run the numbers about how much extra bittering hops (a hop tea) you can add to blance the malt.

My story: I bought a tin of amber ale, added 2kg of malt and it was waaaaayyyy to sweet, got me hammered tho. Tried a tin of sparking ale (I think it was) and added 1Kg of malt and .5kg dex and it was still a bit bitter for what I was chasing. My thought was that if the malt is making it sweeter then get a more bitter tin and add more malt to it thus bringing the IBU's down enough to balance for what I'm after. The IPA + 2Kg did the trick but just too bloody strong! I'm going more AG stuff lately but will still run a kit when I'm in between grain orders and the next one will be the sparkling with 1.5kg of malt, I reckon that will do the trick nicely.

Cheers,
Shred.

 

[ShredMaster]

Stevia is another option for sweetening which I've read about. I don't like the taste of stevia in my coffee so I haven't bothered to try it in my beer.

 

[keezawitch]

Sounds about right. I reckon try adding more DME to it. I now dont use ANY dex/sugar unless I want to make it a bit drier, the malt gives it some nice creamyness (to me) and leaves it quite sweet.

1 kit + 1.5kg DME tastes great, slightly strong but damn nice depending on the kit. The last Coopers APA I used 2kg malt and was a really really nice balanced beer, but bloody potent, brought the bitterness down and added the body I was after.


Cheers,
Shred.

ok remember i am a newbie and forgive me for this WHAT IS DME, i use dextrose in lager kit, have used a dextrose and malt mix in the hobgoblin is that a dme?

 

[ShredMaster]

Sorry Keez, DME = dry malt extract.


Another thing is to look at various yeast strains, some of them attenuate more than others. (Attenuation is basically how much the convert sugar to alcohol/co2, high attenuation = drier beer, low attenuation = sweeter beer).


Just trying to throw things out there so you can work out what works for you

Good luck!!


Cheers,
Shred.

 

[keezawitch]

Stevia is another option for sweetening which I've read about. I don't like the taste of stevia in my coffee so I haven't bothered to try it in my beer.

yuk artifical sweeteners i am with you on that one, i would love the malty one and to hell with getting hammered, one would do it for me :blink: but then again cant make it too strong the lager is for him and dont feel like picking him up off floor next day and rushing him to hosp with a hypo, he likes his beer, problem is if it is too high in alco it strips the system of sugars drastically the next day and can throw a diabetic into a hypo, happened yrs ago after a really nice :chug: evening with friends, dont want to go there again. lactose might be the way if need be.

 

[keezawitch]

Sorry Keez, DME = dry malt extract.


Another thing is to look at various yeast strains, some of them attenuate more than others. (Attenuation is basically how much the convert sugar to alcohol/co2, high attenuation = drier beer, low attenuation = sweeter beer).


Just trying to throw things out there so you can work out what works for you

Good luck!!


Cheers,
Shred.

no, this is great its the only way i will learn, and it is helping me get my head around it, i can apply this stuff to anything i brew in the future, I want to get the kits sorted in my head(if not in the bottle) before i have a go at all grain, as i have said i have a hobgoblin in and it uses both a can and grain so slowly working my way up.

 

[bradsbrew]

I would say the yeast character is playing a big part in your differences. It could be the way the yeast was handled before you bought it, was it from same shop? Also pitching temp? You have given a 3 degree variable between the 2 brews that will effect the flavour profile heaps. Did you pitch yeast at same temp in both brews?



Just a few of many things that will effect the profile of a beer.

edit= how much hot water did you use to dissolve the dex? This could have lifted your pitching temp.

Cheers

 

[pk.sax]

Go and find a link to "how to brew"

Don't read it, give computer to hubby and let him read it.

Then ask him your questions and see how much you two will differ on things. Run a search on AHB for the things you disagreed on try to figure those things out.

Throw the kit instructions out by default.
Just remember that you need a kilo of sugar with the tin, add some other sugar, like the DME. Forget the rest of it.
Go to the brewshop and buy a packet of US05 yeast - Safale us05. Hopefully they have that one. Try following the temperature guidelines on that packet, use at the cooler end of that.

And remember, bad beer can make you sick, don't play with it, get some control over it.

 

[keezawitch]

I would say the yeast character is playing a big part in your differences. It could be the way the yeast was handled before you bought it, was it from same shop? Also pitching temp? You have given a 3 degree variable between the 2 brews that will effect the flavour profile heaps. Did you pitch yeast at same temp in both brews?



Just a few of many things that will effect the profile of a beer.



Cheers

actually they came from different shops, one came with brew kit(kmart) the other comes from big w, i have since brought all my kits from big w, yep pitched yeast at the same temp 27 degrees for both. both brews ranged from 28 down to 26 over the 7 days but could be different each day from kit to kit.

 

[ShredMaster]

BigW and Kmart's ability to handle beer ingredients correctly is right up there with my ability to perform painless dental surgery with an angle grinder. They treat it as a simple product, price it up, whack it on the shelf and sell it. For all we know, it could have been in a warehouse somewhere for 6 months or worse, returned from another store which is overstocked and palmed off to the stores that manage to sell through it.

Go to a home brew shop and get it there, most of them have people who make beer and like beer. Even order from the site sponsors. Do whatever it takes to make sure your kit has at least been attempted to be handled with some form of care rather than by 16year olds and rehabilitated prisioners in work placement.

Cheers,
Shred.

 

[keezawitch]

Go and find a link to "how to brew"

Don't read it, give computer to hubby and let him read it.

Then ask him your questions and see how much you two will differ on things. Run a search on AHB for the things you disagreed on try to figure those things out.

Throw the kit instructions out by default.
Just remember that you need a kilo of sugar with the tin, add some other sugar, like the DME. Forget the rest of it.
Go to the brewshop and buy a packet of US05 yeast - Safale us05. Hopefully they have that one. Try following the temperature guidelines on that packet, use at the cooler end of that.

And remember, bad beer can make you sick, don't play with it, get some control over it.

the beer doesnt taste off it tastes nice just not as nice as the first one, if it was off the chooks and pig would already have it, HUBBY HUBBY nnnooooo he just drinks it, I do the rest he has no interest in the process, son helps out and we do throw questions to each other if he has time i will get him to read how to brew too.
sad to say i have a man who doesnt want to learn to brew, sad isnt it almost unaustralian

 

[keezawitch]

BigW and Kmart's ability to handle beer ingredients correctly is right up there with my ability to perform painless dental surgery with an angle grinder. They treat it as a simple product, price it up, whack it on the shelf and sell it. For all we know, it could have been in a warehouse somewhere for 6 months or worse, returned from another store which is overstocked and palmed off to the stores that manage to sell through it.

Go to a home brew shop and get it there, most of them have people who make beer and like beer. Even order from the site sponsors. Do whatever it takes to make sure your kit has at least been attempted to be handled with some form of care rather than by 16year olds and rehabilitated prisioners in work placement.

Cheers,
Shred.

i will definately take this under advisement, now now dont pick on the 16 yrs olds we were that age once, lol, and the reh prisoners, well i'm not one thankfully, lol. but i get your drift some of the people at these places these days make a labotomy look like a step up. Will have to chat to local brew guy, he is getting more chatty lately, think he now realises it is me doing the brewing not hubby, and the cheesemaking, he is getting 2 customers in one with me

thanks
keez

 

[MaltyHops]

yuk artifical sweeteners i am with you on that one, ... cant make it too strong the
lager is for him ... a diabetic ...

Stevia is meant to be a natural product - another sweetener called xylitol (despite
its name) is also a natural sweetener, suitable for diabetics, not fermentable by
yeast. Had an unopened bottle from some while back for diabetic family - brewed
a DrSmurto Golden Ale that ended up a bit too bitter so added some xylitol during
priming/bottling and it turned out quite well.

For diabetic hubby, you might want to look into using oat malt extract (available
from one of our site sponsors as it happens) as a way of adding body/mouthfeel
to brews. The usual way of adding mouthfeel by adding maltodextrine (or mashing
at higher temperatures to increase dextrins production in All Grain brewing) might
not suit a diabetic as I think the dextrins might have a high GI rating.

I'm thinking oat extract might create body by adding proteins to the beer (see THIS
chaper of How To Brew). So using a combination of normal malt extract, oat malt
extract, xylitol or lactose (which is meant to be medium GI) you might be able to
make some nice beers for hubby.