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First Kit Great 2nd One Not As Good, Why?

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keezawitch

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My first kit i brewed of coopers lager was great had a nice creamy feel and just the right sweetness, my problem is the second one isnt as creamy or as sweet, the only thing I did different is I dissolved the dex before adding malt(can stuff) could this be the reason, appreciate any advice from you guys. :blink:
 

hoppy2B

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Do you have control over fermentation temp?
 

alien13

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What about the fermentation temperatures? What did you have for the first one and second one?

Also, how long did you have them in the bottle before trying one?

[Edit]: As above ;)
 

roverfj1200

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I would ask.

How did you wash up and clean the fermenter.

What temp did you brew at

Bottle washing How..

Glass is it clean.


Cheers.
 

Rina

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This is pretty vague. My guess is the yeast for reasons unknown attenuated better on the second round.
 

keezawitch

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ok, tempature with both brews sat at 26-28, i washed both lots exactly the same, washed in hot soapy water, rinse in hit water, soak in bleach/water, rinse and dry in hot oven thats the bottles. The barrel thing same up to hot oven dry instead I scald it with boiling water just before use.
 

keezawitch

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This is pretty vague. My guess is the yeast for reasons unknown attenuated better on the second round.
I am really new to this could you please explain attenuated better, do you mean worked better.
 

fergi

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yes that what he means, attenuated better will make it not as sweet.
fergi
 

gazeboar

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ok, tempature with both brews sat at 26-28, i washed both lots exactly the same, washed in hot soapy water, rinse in hit water, soak in bleach/water, rinse and dry in hot oven thats the bottles. The barrel thing same up to hot oven dry instead I scald it with boiling water just before use.
I made a Coopers lager at this same temperature range with a brew enhancer pack and a specialised lager yeast strain. As I later found out, the strain was designed to work at 16 degrees lower than my wort temp. I may as well have not even bothered, a month later I tasted, and it was absolutely revolting. Loaded with fussel fuels and off flavours. It ends up as a waste of your money, time and effort. You don't even need to delve into the science of it, incorrect strain, poor temperature, poor adjuct, the end result was awful. I tipped every single one of these bottles down the drain. I'm as new to brewing as you are, but if i've learnt anything from that batch, I would suggest to not even bother trying to ferment a lager at that range, unless you enjoy terrible beer. Don't bother with the yeast strains provided with the extract kits (you can use them as nutrients for a premium yeast), and disregard the fermentation temperatures on the instructions provided with the kit. There's plenty of information on this site to guide you in terms of suitable ferm temps for different styles.
 

Rina

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What fergi said more or less. Do you have a hydrometer and did you take gravity readings?
 

ShredMaster

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When starting out brewing, I reckon you NEED to make some shit beer a couple of times so you can sit back and work out wtf went wrong and how to make it better next time. To this day, I pour a beer and attempt to see what I can work out based on how the end result turned out.

With kits, it is almost always blind-luck with regards to how the tin has been handled before it got into your fementer - bad storage conditions, age, temperature etc. I have brewed 3 kits in a row plenty of times and I get 3 similar but not the same beers, even when using the exact same method and recipe.

Drink it, make some more, see how that one goes. Rinse & repeat as required. Start freaking out when 2 in a row are really bad...


Cheers,
Shred.
 

keezawitch

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oh dear... mate thats pretty damn warm for any yeast and any beer.

Fking Coopers instructions strike again <_<
ok i will cool the room a little, but still cant see why that would effect 2nd brew if first one was great and brewed at this temp. currently have a kit lager in and a hobgoblin in temp is sitting at 24.
 

keezawitch

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When starting out brewing, I reckon you NEED to make some shit beer a couple of times so you can sit back and work out wtf went wrong and how to make it better next time. To this day, I pour a beer and attempt to see what I can work out based on how the end result turned out.

With kits, it is almost always blind-luck with regards to how the tin has been handled before it got into your fementer - bad storage conditions, age, temperature etc. I have brewed 3 kits in a row plenty of times and I get 3 similar but not the same beers, even when using the exact same method and recipe.

Drink it, make some more, see how that one goes. Rinse & repeat as required. Start freaking out when 2 in a row are really bad...


Cheers,
Shred.
well i have my fourth kit in at the moment, kit number 2 is the one in question, kit number 3 aging and kit number 4 in wort so it will be interesting to see how each will go. Doesnt really worry me to stuff up its how you learn and I have some very happy chooks tossed the ones i bottled from end of keg really not nice, hubby will drink rest.
 

keezawitch

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What fergi said more or less. Do you have a hydrometer and did you take gravity readings?
yes and yes, i use them to see when to bottle and work out the alcohol content. Are they useful for other things?
 

ekul

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Maybe the first beer had a stuck fermentation and the second one didn't? When i was kit/extract brewing a lot of my beers would get stuck around the 1016-1020 range, which made them taste sweet. HOwever sometimes the same brew using the same ingredients from the same shop (and probably same malt barrel) would attenuate to 1012. I wasn't very good at brewing back then though.

Taking hydrometer readings is very important as it can let you know whats happening with your beer.

If you can, get a temperature controlled fermentation fridge and some norinse sanitiser. These two things made my kits from 'getting pissed juice' to drinkable beer. As has been said, lager yeast at 24C is probably not going to give you a tasty beverage.
 

bum

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yes and yes, i use them to see when to bottle and work out the alcohol content. Are they useful for other things?
Yes, you can relate the readings and people can possibly use them to formulate the advice you are asking for.
 

keezawitch

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yes that what he means, attenuated better will make it not as sweet.
fergi

we liked it sweeter, if i drop the temp on future kits this should slow the yeast will that make it sweeter and could it also give it a creamier mouth feel, these are what is missing in second batch, second batch quite ok to drink just not so lip smacking as the first
 

keezawitch

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Maybe the first beer had a stuck fermentation and the second one didn't? When i was kit/extract brewing a lot of my beers would get stuck around the 1016-1020 range, which made them taste sweet. HOwever sometimes the same brew using the same ingredients from the same shop (and probably same malt barrel) would attenuate to 1012. I wasn't very good at brewing back then though.

Taking hydrometer readings is very important as it can let you know whats happening with your beer.

If you can, get a temperature controlled fermentation fridge and some norinse sanitiser. These two things made my kits from 'getting pissed juice' to drinkable beer. As has been said, lager yeast at 24C is probably not going to give you a tasty beverage.
is that too cold or too hot
 
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