First AG Brew - Few Questions

[storeboughtcheeseburgers]

Hi guys,

Did my first AG brew yesterday. Was a lot of fun, and a lot of work! I used the recipe here: http://aussiehomebrewer.com/recipe/1379-bullshead-witbier

Had a taste this morning, and ended up with around 20L so I'm pretty happy with the result overall.

Aiming for an efficiency of 70%, unfortunately I only ended up with 50% efficiency. the Final Gravity came out at 1.034 . I took the initial liquour reading at mash out, and it was 1.044 - So I have a few questions:

I got my grains from Craftbrewer, and the wheat was somewhat milled as requested, but I am thinking it should have been milled a bit more.

Also with sparging, we bulk sparged from pots on the stove at around 88 degrees - the mash was at around 60 when we sparged. I am thinking we may have rushed the sparge a bit and should have let it trickle out more slowly. Do you guys angle the fermenter when sparging into the boil pot?

And lastly - I am thinking of adding 1kg extra pilsner malt to get my gravity to 1.044 according to brew smith. The wort was no chilled straight into the fermenter and is now ready for pitching. Basically this will take the alcohol percent up to around 4.07% - will there be much impact on flavour? can I add the malt cold? I used Dingemans Pilsner Malt in this recipe. I have a choice of either Weyermann, Galaxy or Barret Burston Pale pilsner malt from the LHBS - What would you guys recommend to add?

Cheers to everyone for your help. Lord Goomba especially for showing me the Paint Pail lauter technique. Heres some photos from the day: http://storeboughtcheeseburgers.imgur.com/all/ . As you can see from the photos, it was a big, sooty experience and I think I'm addicted now.

 

[Bribie G]

What temperature did you mash at?
Did you do a fly sparge by trickling hot water onto the grain or a batch sparge?

 

[storeboughtcheeseburgers]

mashed at 66. I did a batch sparge with a top lid with holes

 

[pilgrimspiss]

When I first started all grain brewing I was doing my sparge (fly) in a bout 10 - 15 minutes. Terrible efficiency. Slowed the rate right down to a trickle so it takes about 45 - 60 minutes now....spot on efficiency. If you're trickling your sparge water onto a lid with holes in it, on top of the grain bed from another vessel then you are actually fly sparging. You want to let the water level get above the grain bed (maybe 1") then open the outlet slowly on your mash tun and match the in/out rates to a trickle.

I have never batch sparged, only fly but the end product is the same....If you are 'Batch Sparging' I'd fill the MT with your first 'batch' of sparge water then let it trickle out extremely slowly. Maybe 1/2 hr each sparge if your doing it twice? Make sure you hit your temps correctly as well.

I also do a finer crush than what craft brewer supplies as 'crushed'. Nothing like playing with mill settings and seeing what happens. Purchase a mill if you can.....You wont look back. I even got better efficiency using a corona mill before I went to a roller mill.


I did a fair few low OG brews at the start before I got my efficiency down. DON'T ADD CRUSHED GRAINS TO THE FERMENTOR. You have to mash the crushed grain at temperature to convert starches to sugar for the yeast to eat. I used to add 1kg dextrose to the fermentor to bring the alc % up if I didn't quite hit the numbers I was looking for.

Major factors to increase efficiency:

Grain Crush
Sparge time
Mash Temps
Water levels / amounts (Don't OVER sparge, get your boil amounts right etc)

Once I improved on these, my efficiency increased quickly.

Cheers
Matty

 

[storeboughtcheeseburgers]

Ok, So can I add anything to the brew before I pitch for a higher alc %??

I think slower sparging next time and I'm gunna have a look at mills.

 

[n87]

My first AG last week. i ended up with 85-90% efficiency (beersmith calculated)
I mashed at 69 (i thought it was 67 at the time... stupid thermometer) for an hour
pulled grains out as the temp approached 80 (77 on thermometer)
took hydro reading, adjusted for temp... 90% mash efficiency!

Full volume mash/boil
no sparge

i had my grain crushed 'fine' by MHB.

 

[storeboughtcheeseburgers]

I might be confusing things a bit here.

This brew recipe has a 70% efficiency rating, and I lowered the gravity reading to my final gravity 1.34 and it says 50% - so does this mean I got 50/70 or 71% efficiency? - Beer smith ca lculated

I'm thinking I'll add 500g dex to get the alc percentage up 1% - wont make too much difference.

 

[manticle]

Did you measure gravity when the wort was hot or cool?

 

[storeboughtcheeseburgers]

I measured the final gravity this morning, it cooled overnight.

 

[storeboughtcheeseburgers]

The original recipe I plugged in had a efficiency of 70%, original gravity of 1.055, final gravity of 1.012 (beer smith) @ 4.62%

I have reduced the percentage down to my gravity reading using nazi mode to my original gravity reading of 1.034, equating to 50% efficiency. I plugged in the amount of dextrose I have on hand, which is 430g which will increase my original gravity to 1.041 with a final of 1.008 resulting in 4.27%

I'd prefer to use dex as this is a wit beer and I don't want too dark a SRM.

Just wondering if I should pitch the wort as it is now and add the dex once fermentation has started (in a few days) so the yeast doesn't get lazy or if I should add it now before pitching?

 

[pilgrimspiss]

I measured the final gravity this morning, it cooled overnight.

'the Final Gravity came out at 1.034 . I took the initial liquour reading at mash out, and it was 1.044'

Just to clarify some definitions for you :
'Original gravity (OG) measures how much sugar is present in the wort before it is fermented. The final gravity (FG) is how much sugar is left over when fermentation is done.'

So I'm thinking you had an original gravity of 1.034 once you had boiled your wort and let it cool but before you pitched any yeast?

You can calculate your efficiency with something like this:

http://www.brewersfriend.com/brewhouse-efficiency/

 

[pilgrimspiss]

There's pros and cons for both ways.....I've done both....YOu can liken it to making a kit beer where you slam it all in and add water.

If you've got a strong starter or using 2x packs of dried yeast you can bung the dex straight in and give it a mix.

Or you can let the yeast kick off and add the dex in a day or too. Make sure you sterilise your spoon before you stir it in the wort.

 

[storeboughtcheeseburgers]

'the Final Gravity came out at 1.034 . I took the initial liquour reading at mash out, and it was 1.044'

Just to clarify some definitions for you :
'Original gravity (OG) measures how much sugar is present in the wort before it is fermented. The final gravity (FG) is how much sugar is left over when fermentation is done.'

So I'm thinking you had an original gravity of 1.034 once you had boiled your wort and let it cool but before you pitched any yeast?

You can calculate your efficiency with something like this:

http://www.brewersfriend.com/brewhouse-efficiency/

Yeh cheers mate, I know its original gravity, just getting myself confuseds. Thanks for the calculator, I had about 48% efficiency - pretty poor- definitely will get the grains cracked finer and sparge a lot slower next time. Theres only one way to learn!

 

[pilgrimspiss]

That's it!! The more you do it the better you get.

I ended up pissing off the plastic lid with the holes in it and just running a piece of silicone hose on top of the grain. If you trickle real slow and get water covering the top it doesn't disturb the bottom of the grain bed anyway. You can move the hose round the top of the grain bed over the sparge period to get eveness. I'm running a LocLine arm at the moment.....its pretty cool...you can move it up and down and twist it around. Its a little different if your mashing in an esky though.

Cheers Matty.

 

[marksy]

+ for letting the mash dribble out.

A few tips I've done with batch sparge. If your using beer smith it should tell you under the mash profiles, but I basically add x amount of almost boiling water almost at the end for a mash out. Giving it a good stir then let it sit for 5-10mins. I let my mash dribble out, all the way. The. I add x amount of 80ish degree water and repeat the process. Then do it a 3rd time and until I collect enough for the boil.

Every runnings I take a grav reading, and just as it hits boil I take a another reading. Also check your hydrometer and thermometer. Mine thermometers were 6c off from each other. Always stir your mash. I tey and give a quick stir every 20mins and I usually mash for 90mins.

 

[Donske]

+ for letting the mash dribble out.

A few tips I've done with batch sparge. If your using beer smith it should tell you under the mash profiles, but I basically add x amount of almost boiling water almost at the end for a mash out. Giving it a good stir then let it sit for 5-10mins. I let my mash dribble out, all the way. The. I add x amount of 80ish degree water and repeat the process. Then do it a 3rd time and until I collect enough for the boil.

Every runnings I take a grav reading, and just as it hits boil I take a another reading. Also check your hydrometer and thermometer. Mine thermometers were 6c off from each other. Always stir your mash. I tey and give a quick stir every 20mins and I usually mash for 90mins.

Why are you draining slow for a batch sparge, it doesn't really make sense, once you've got the residual sugars dissolved into your sparge water what difference would it make whether you run off fast or slow?

I agree with the rest of the things you've suggested, all great advice for improving efficiency, I personally push my sparge temp pretty close to 90, the hotter you can get your sparge the easier the sugars will dissolve.

 

[lael]

Why are you draining slow for a batch sparge, it doesn't really make sense, once you've got the residual sugars dissolved into your sparge water what difference would it make whether you run off fast or slow?

I agree with the rest of the things you've suggested, all great advice for improving efficiency, I personally push my sparge temp pretty close to 90, the hotter you can get your sparge the easier the sugars will dissolve.

I thought you get tannins if you get too hot?

 

[Donske]

I thought you get tannins if you get too hot?

I've never found it an issue, I should clarify, sparge water is 90 to 95, it does drop a bit when mixed with slightly cooler grain, probably about 85 in the tun.

 

[Kiwifirst]

I generally mash at 67c for 40 mins. Mash out at 76c for 20, then batch sparse at 78c for about 15 before running out of the chilly bin.

So I would go grain bill kg x2.5l for my mash. Add near boiling water after 40 until mash temp moves to 76. Then heat the rest of the water to around 80, which is then used to batch sparge. I have never fly sparged, find batch sparring way to easy to try anything different.


You also mentioned that your mash was at 60c when you sparged, that is a lot of heat loss from 66c. That will affect the mash results, you should try and find a way to keep that temp constant.

 

[storeboughtcheeseburgers]

Thanks all for replies. I've taken note of a lot of variables. One of them being to turf the crappy electric thermometer I got off Ebay and have just purchased a 2 X mercury ones from here . Definitely want to get my temps right. The grain I got milled from craftbrewer was probably milled quite well. I don't know if anyone else has used crushed protein grain from there, or raw wheat but I think they know what they are doing well enough. I'll ask them to mill everything a little bit fine. Can't afford a mill right now, but will look into it down the track.

I generally mash at 67c for 40 mins. Mash out at 76c for 20, then batch sparse at 78c for about 15 before running out of the chilly bin.

So I would go grain bill kg x2.5l for my mash. Add near boiling water after 40 until mash temp moves to 76. Then heat the rest of the water to around 80, which is then used to batch sparge. I have never fly sparged, find batch sparring way to easy to try anything different.


You also mentioned that your mash was at 60c when you sparged, that is a lot of heat loss from 66c. That will affect the mash results, you should try and find a way to keep that temp constant.

Thinking I will do a variation of this technique that will be closer to a 90 minute mash in the future. Thinking 66-68 for 40, mash out at 76 and rest for 20 in the lauter, then add water to get it to 78-80 and stir/rest for 20-30 - slowly drain, recycle the initial liquour till its a bit clearer .

I am wondering if it is possible to do a half batch sparge/ half fly sparge. I am thinking I might do half the residual sparge water after the initial liquor unnings as a batch/rest sparge and extraction after 10-20 mins and then a trickle at the end as a fly sparge just to ensure anything wasn't lost?