First Ag.......biab

[sid]

Hi all.

well I'm onto my 1st AG in a couple of days...........using a modified 50ltr keg. I have worked out a quick recipee using beersmith and was wondering if it looks right.

I used Single Infusion, Full Body, No Mash Out and have the boil volume set to 30.41 ltr for a finished batch of 25ltr (beersmith settings)...............I will probably mash out at the end of the mash.

heres my recipee....... boil and mash time are set to 75min with the mash strike temp set to 73.3c aiming for 70c, the IBU says 24.2 and the alchohol is 4.9%

anything I need to modify?..........any advice would be appreciated.

5.00 kg Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 89.3 %
0.20 kg Caraamber (30.0 SRM) Grain 3.6 %
0.20 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM) Grain 3.6 %
0.20 kg Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 3.6 %
20.00 gm Styrian Goldings [5.40%] (75 min) Hops 11.2 IBU
20.00 gm Hallertauer, New Zealand [6.60%] (30 min) Hops 10.0 IBU
15.00 gm Williamette [5.50%] (10 min) Hops 3.0 IBU
1 Pkgs SafAle English Ale (DCL Yeast #S-04) Yeast-Ale

 

[chappo1970]

Hi all.

well I'm onto my 1st AG in a couple of days...........using a modified 50ltr keg. I have worked out a quick recipee using beersmith and was wondering if it looks right.

I used Single Infusion, Full Body, No Mash Out and have the boil volume set to 30.41 ltr for a finished batch of 25ltr (beersmith settings)...............I will probably mash out at the end of the mash.

heres my recipee....... boil and mash time are set to 75min with the mash strike temp set to 73.3c aiming for 70c, the IBU says 24.2 and the alchohol is 4.9%

anything I need to modify?..........any advice would be appreciated.

5.00 kg Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 89.3 %
0.20 kg Caraamber (30.0 SRM) Grain 3.6 %
0.20 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM) Grain 3.6 %
0.20 kg Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 3.6 %
20.00 gm Styrian Goldings [5.40%] (75 min) Hops 11.2 IBU
20.00 gm Hallertauer, New Zealand [6.60%] (30 min) Hops 10.0 IBU
15.00 gm Williamette [5.50%] (10 min) Hops 3.0 IBU
1 Pkgs SafAle English Ale (DCL Yeast #S-04) Yeast-Ale

So you found the slippery slide huh? Good on ya!

Ok I would either up the Vienna to 20% or drop it altogether as 200grs is going to contribute SFA.

Also I would drop the Hallertaur (NZ) as I don't think it will work well with the Styrian and Willies.

I would also reconcider the yeast to maybe a notto and or 1469 if you can? S04 to me isn't the greatest yeast.

Just my 2c
Good luck with it


Chappo

 

[Bribie G]

Agree with Chappo about the hops, they would be fighting with each other like 3 boys under a blanket. I reckon if you up the Willamette and replace the Hallertau and the Styrians with Motueka (BSaaz) and use US-05 as the yeast you would be well on your way to a nice APA.
As it is, it is a bit 'mid Atlantic' if you know what I mean

Definitely save the Styrians for a UK style bitter later on.

 

[Screwtop]

Can't see why or how you would want to do a mash out step out using Biab ??

mash strike temp set to 73.3c aiming for 70c, the IBU says 24.2 and the alchohol is 4.9%

Beersmith comes with some preset parameters, these are just rough guidelines. Do you like a sweet finish to your beer (mash temp 70C) if so maybe you should reconsider balancing that out with an increase in IBU.

Cheers,

Screwy

 

[sid]

hey ya guys, thanx for the replies...................yep on that slippery slide.

Ok I'll drop the vienna, just threw that in as it was sitting in the cubboard, but your right, wouldn't do much at that rate.
I'll drop the hallertaur then and up the willamette to get the right IBU (24ibu).......sounds good.

I'll also replace the s-04 with the US-05 as I have some here..............mid atlantic.......sound's good

Yeh I thought that temp was a bit high for the mash...........and I don't like my beer too sweet, so I'll lower that to around 64-66c I reckon...........so should that mean I take the strike temp to around 68-69c and allow for a little drop off while it mashes?

 

[clean brewer]

Yeh I thought that temp was a bit high for the mash...........and I don't like my beer too sweet, so I'll lower that to around 64-66c I reckon...........so should that mean I take the strike temp to around 68-69c and allow for a little drop off while it mashes?

A strike temp of 68-69c may be a little low for a mash in temp of 64-66c depending on "your" equipment.. :unsure:

With "my" 60ltr Igloo Esky, my strike water needs to be at 71c in the esky to get a mash temp of 65c.........

:icon_cheers: CB

 

[katzke]

I will let you do the conversions.

Yes on the mash out. It is a BIAB thing.

I would try and mash at 154f or follow the guide on this one.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

. . . Can't see why or how you would want to do a mash out step out using Biab ?? . . . .

Gives a real boost to the efficiency Screwy. No sparge step in BIAB remember - so during the brief BIAB lautering process - the grain and wort are all at your mash temp... no increase to sparge temp as there would be in a batch or continuous rig.

So in BIAB the mashout step is not about fixing the enzyme profile - its about raising the whole mash to lautering temperatures so the wort drains well... and about accessing the last of the unconverted starch to avoid haze and eek out a few points of efficiency.

Strike temps ... Lets say you have the 5.6kg of grain from your recipe and you are using 34.5L of water in the pot (which is what I would use if you are aiming for a pre-boil volume of 30.4L). If you want an initial mash temperature of 66 degrees, then if you heat your water to 70C.. by the time you have stirred your grain into the water and things have settled down.. you will be within a widget of 66C. Surely Beersmith has a strike temperature calculator?

TB

 

[sid]

Strike temps ... Lets say you have the 5.6kg of grain from your recipe and you are using 34.5L of water in the pot (which is what I would use if you are aiming for a pre-boil volume of 30.4L). If you want an initial mash temperature of 66 degrees, then if you heat your water to 70C.. by the time you have stirred your grain into the water and things have settled down.. you will be within a widget of 66C. Surely Beersmith has a strike temperature calculator?

TB

Yeh it has a strike temp calculator worked into the programme. As it's not got a boil in a bag profile though It works out everything for mashing in an esky and then a sparge of the grain.

For the 25litre batch I'm doing it worked out a total of 36.97ltr of water will be needed for a strike temp of 73.3c to hold the mash at 70c for 75min (in this beersmith uses a plastic mashtun), then a 6.57ltr sparge at 75.6c.
Then I boil for 75min......................I didn't think I'd loose 10.97 litres in the boil though..........does this sound right?

 

[katzke]

I thought someplace there is a mash profile on this site for BIAB.

I still think you are planning on mashing to high.

I gave up on beersmith so recomend you work backwards using one of the many posts from TB on how much water do you need. Then you can plug it in to BS and find your strike tempurature.

10 liters sounds like a big loss. I bet it has something to do with a dead space setting in BS. Unless you have your boil off set to about 30%. Water was the big reason why I dumped BS. I always had to figure it out by hand anyway.

 

[Bribie G]

Can't see why or how you would want to do a mash out step out using Biab ??


................................
Screwy

In the past I have done a mashout with BIAB, I drain six or seven litres of runnings out of the urn, pour six or seven litres of very hot water into the mash, stir like crazy, hoist and drain the bag then put the first runnings back in for the boil.

However nowadays I sparge in a bucket with approximately the same amount of water. You can do either or, but not both as you end up with way too much diluted wort. I still haven't worked out which is the best, I'd tend to go for sparge in the bucket using 75 degrees hot water.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

For BIAB - you mash at exactly the same temperature you would for any other method.

And while I'm not saying in any way that using a sparge in BIAB is "wrong" - It is unnecessary. If your pot is big enough (and at 50L it is plenty big enough) then you just don't need one. All it is doing is making your life more complicated.

Back to basics for beginners huh? BIAB needs one pot and one water addition and thats it ... thats part of what makes it attractive for a new brewer. Sparging is a tweak or a modification of the basic BIAB process, and you only need to do it if you need to do it.. or after you have some experience and you decide you want to.

You mash out... by turning your heat on low and stirring.

Like I said - its not that sparging is wrong, or that mashing out with a water addition is wrong - they aren't. But they also aren't simple and easy to understand. All the water at once, at the start, add heat with the heater... easy to understand, less processes to manage and 100% proven to work.

Plug your figures into the spreadsheet that PP so laboriously created for this very reason (attached) and you will know how much water to use. Then use one of the strike temperature calculators to work out how hot your initial water should be - add your grain, stir, take a temperature to make sure its where you want it - if it isn't, add heat with your burner (stirring constantly) or stir it uncovered and uninsulated till it cools a little - when its right, lid on and insulate the hell out of the kettle - walk away for an hour - come back, open up the kettle and put your heat on relatively low, stir constantly till your mash is at 76-78C - heat off and pull out the bag - drain/squeeze - heat on and boil.

When you have made a few beers and you are confident with the basic process - THEN.. by all means have a play about with sparging and holding water for instant mashouts (which are not the same as doing it by heating while stirring) or any of the other tweaks, mods and variations. I personally can't see why you would bother unless you had a need though. Bribie wants to do extra long boils... he has a need. Other guys have smaller than ideal pots.. they have a need. If you don't ??? Well..... the basic process works really well as it is.

Here is PPs spreadsheet to help you work out your volumes and boil offs - this will get you within a bees dick of exactly where you need to be

View attachment BIAB_Equipment_Set_Up_Volumes_140909.xls

TB

 

[sid]

For BIAB - you mash at exactly the same temperature you would for any other method.

And while I'm not saying in any way that using a sparge in BIAB is "wrong" - It is unnecessary. If your pot is big enough (and at 50L it is plenty big enough) then you just don't need one. All it is doing is making your life more complicated.

hey thanks for all the info guys, helps me out alot, got to get this first one under the belt....then the rest should be easier.

Your right, I'll just be doing the BIAB the standard way, mashed at 156F, then mash it out...... do it like this a 1/2 dozen times first and play around with making some different style beers.
The other stuff can wait a while.... hopefully I'll start drinking some good AG beer this summer.

thanx for that spread sheet link, I'll check that out right now and get my volumes right.

 

[Digger11]

Been having a look at pistolpatch Petes spreadsheet and I am a bit confused.

I always brew 23l - so does that mean that a 40l Birko or Crown will be too small as the SS calculates 42.3l of initial water ??

thanks
Digger

 

[Thirsty Boy]

with a 90min or 60min boil? You need to know the diameters of the vessel too - or the calculation is ot of whack. 40L urns are big enough... so I am guessing that you have one of the parameters out of whack.

 

[Digger11]

thanks - but I was using ppppp petes default values in the spreadsheet - they have a 45cm diameter for the boiler and 90mins boil to give the 42.3l of initial volume.

I was just looking at this to work out if I could get away with a cheap Ebay 30l - but I am o.k. to buy a 40l as form previous posts 40l seems to do the job. Maybe ppppppp petes default values are not usual ?

BTW: Thanks to ppp pete for this spreadsheet, it will certainly aid my brewing when I get to BIAB.

 

[sid]

just as well I read that spread sheet, I want around 23-25ltrs, so I should use 40ltrs from the start, I was only going to use 30ltrs, my beer is now a bit lower in %.

 

[katzke]

just as well I read that spread sheet, I want around 23-25ltrs, so I should use 40ltrs from the start, I was only going to use 30ltrs, my beer is now a bit lower in %.

Yes if you want to end up with 25l of finished beer you will need more water. Why not size it to the strength you want and not worry about the volume? Then you can get some figures to set up your system in BS.

Are you sure with the post boil you will end up with a smaller beer? Post boil is where you figure your gravity. Beersmith may be messing with your mind here. They use different figures for different things. All that really matters is how much liquid you have after the boil. The sugars will not go away after that with out taking liquid. So the gravity post boil will be the same as what you put in the fermenter, even if you leave some wort behind with break and hops and such.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Maybe ppppppp petes default values are not usual ?

They are pretty typical - its just that they are "mainly" constructed around the idea of BIAB in a regular pot with a burner - the 40L urns are not the most common way to do BIAB... but seem to be growing in popularity.

In general, PP, myself and probably other BIAB brewers would be recommending 40L as the absolute minimum size for a practical BIAB pot - I still think this is true. 40L limits you.. it limits your batch size, it limits how strong a beer you can make & it limits you if you want to do longer boils - oh you can get around those limits alright, but you have to go to extra trouble, or have extra gear. 40L is enough for "most" beers, for single batches - but you will occasionally bump into the limits... any smaller a vessel and it would be a regular occurance. The 40L urns are simply such a handy "one bit of gear" solution for BIAB... that they make the size limitations worth it for a lot of brewers.

Me personally - if I was setting up a BIAB system... If I could get a 50L or bigger urn, that would be my choice; but with only a 40L as the option, I might well go for a 50-60L stockpot and 2400W immersion element combo - it would be a toss up... I'd probably go the pot and immersion element.

TB

 

[Digger11]

thanks thirsty one - that clears up my question about the spreadsheet.

I am not as professional as most around here and not a fan of beer much over 5.0% (I drink Scotch when I want to get a bit more blood in my alcohol system) so can probably make do with a 40l Urn and its simplicity.

Digger