First AG BIAB 30L Urn

[Cronessa]

Hi All

Big couple of weeks planned, first AG brew planned, first time using Beersmith and first time setting up a keggerator (has been bottles and kits and bits, with the exception of 1 partial, until now) - suffice to say there has been some steep (pardon the pun) learning curves.

I'm planning on trying the Dr Smurto's Golden Ale recipe in Beersmith as it looks like a good one for the first run through. I was tempted to try a Porter or Stout straight off but this recipe looks straight forward and will be good in the keg. I tried setting my equipment profile correctly but it is a little confusing to a newb like me. It would be good to get your opinion on the following recipe and in particular whether anything looks obviously out of wack:

batch size 18.93L
boil size 23L
boil 60 mins

Mash steps =
add 26.74L of water at 70.8c - mash at 66.7c for 75 mins
heat to 75.6c over 7 minutes

60 min boil

recipe=
GRAIN :
2.85 kg pilsner malt
0.95 kg Munich malt
0.95 kg wheat malt
0.30 kg caramunich malt

HOPS :
20g Amarillo (AA 9.2%) 60 mins
26 g Amarillo (AA 9.2%) 20 mins
26 g Amarillo (AA 9.2%) 0 mins
1 tablet of Whirlfloc 15 mins

YEAST
us 05
pitch yeast at 18c
set temp control ferm chamber to 18 and leave

I'm a little concerned that using 26.74L of water to steep just over 5kgs of grains is going to make the urn overflow. I was hoping to use slightly less water (would probably only be a litre or so less) and make it up either pre-boil or in the fermentor. Does this sound sensible?

Cheers for taking the time to read through.

 

[boybrewer]

Hi All

Big couple of weeks planned, first AG brew planned, first time using Beersmith and first time setting up a keggerator (has been bottles and kits and bits, with the exception of 1 partial, until now) - suffice to say there has been some steep (pardon the pun) learning curves.

I'm planning on trying the Dr Smurto's Golden Ale recipe in Beersmith as it looks like a good one for the first run through. I was tempted to try a Porter or Stout straight off but this recipe looks straight forward and will be good in the keg. I tried setting my equipment profile correctly but it is a little confusing to a newb like me. It would be good to get your opinion on the following recipe and in particular whether anything looks obviously out of wack:

batch size 18.93L
boil size 23L
boil 60 mins

Mash steps =
add 26.74L of water at 70.8c - mash at 66.7c for 75 mins
heat to 75.6c over 7 minutes

60 min boil

recipe=
GRAIN :
2.85 kg pilsner malt
0.95 kg Munich malt
0.95 kg wheat malt
0.30 kg caramunich malt

HOPS :
20g Amarillo (AA 9.2%) 60 mins
26 g Amarillo (AA 9.2%) 20 mins
26 g Amarillo (AA 9.2%) 0 mins
1 tablet of Whirlfloc 15 mins

YEAST
us 05
pitch yeast at 18c
set temp control ferm chamber to 18 and leave

I'm a little concerned that using 26.74L of water to steep just over 5kgs of grains is going to make the urn overflow. I was hoping to use slightly less water (would probably only be a litre or so less) and make it up either pre-boil or in the fermentor. Does this sound sensible?

Cheers for taking the time to read through.

I would probably use a bit less water for mashing . Nothing wrong with say 2 - 3.5 lt of water per Kg .
Are you no chilling ? If so I would change the hop additions of 60 min

 

[Cronessa]

Thanks for your reply - I will be no chilling using a cube - how would this change the 60 minute hop addition? I'm guessing because the wort will be hot for longer

 

[Tahoose]

Considering that you are no chilling, you can either leave the 60 min addition as is, or make it a 30 min addition, shouldn't make too much of a difference.

However, I would consider doing your 20min and 0 min additions as one big cube hop, or do your 20 min as a cube hop and then change your 0 to a dry hop.

By cube hop,meaning basically put your hop addition into your nice clean cube, and pour your hot wort on top of these hops. No chill as per instructions.

You should still get a good amount of flavour from this.

DSGA was my first AG also, great beer. One query? Any reason for pils malt and not ale malt?

 

[Cronessa]

Great info, thanks. Using pilsner malt as that's what the recipe said to use. I've read that it's a good base malt. I'd be happy to hear other suggestions though.

 

[JDW81]

DSGA was my first AG also, great beer. One query? Any reason for pils malt and not ale malt?

DSGA uses pilsner malt in the recipe. If that is what Dr Smurto suggests, then I'd stick to that, he knows what he's doing.

As far as adjusting for no chill, there is no fixed or agreed time for adjusting your hop additions. Most reduce the hopping time by about 10-15 minutes. I.e. your 60 minute addition gets added with 45 minutes left in the boil, 15 minute additions get added at flame out and everything else gets done in a mini boil/french press method just before you crack the cube and pitch yeast.

This is what I do and it works very well for my system. Others have different methods which work for their systems. What would be best for you? You'll need to work that one out through trial and error. What works for me won't necessarily work for you.

JD

 

[Tahoose]

It swear it had ale malt in there as the base, haha my bad, suppose that's why it had a good body at 66c

 

[JDW81]

It swear it had ale malt in there as the base, haha my bad, suppose that's why it had a good body at 66c

Ale malt would be totally fine, but when just starting out it is always a good idea to follow the recipe (especially when it is from as respected a brewers as Dr S) for your first few AG brews. It gives you an understanding of different styles and what different grains bring to a beer, without confusing yourself as to what % of a particular grain is appropriate to add for a particular style.

JD

 

[bundy]

I'd also suggest a 90 minute mash. This is the recommended mash time for BIAB.

As for the Water Volume, you can hold some water back from the Urn during the Mash and sparge it in post mash.


Their is a tool called BIABicus (Excel spreadsheet) that has all that built in for holding back water from your mash and calculates what effect that has on your brew. You put in your Kettle (Urn) dimanesions and it works out your volumes and everything for you

I would highly recommend you use that as will help with many things such as volumes, evap rates, kettle efficiency and more.

You can download it here - http://www.biabrewer.info/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1869

 

[philmud]

If you read the epic recipe/comments thread Dr S initially used pilsner malt as the base but changed to an ale malt (could even be MO or GP, but don't quote me). He says in the thread that he prefers the ale malt. I made a version using pils and sent it off to another brewer as part of the Xmas Lotto - feedback was that there was some DMS detectable (and thinks to that I can now detect DMS!). I'd go with ale malt if it's not too late (and read the thread, lots of good info - this is one well brewed beer). If you stick with pils make sure your boil is vigorous and consider a 90 minute boil.

Edit: Speeeling mistooks

 

[Tahoose]

I think that's where I got the info from, also the original recipe had all weyerman grains, but the edited had most JW grains.

There is also a bit of talk through the thread about a slightly altered recipe using rye malt.

 

[Waratah67]

Apologies for the noob question, but what is "no chilling method"? :unsure:

 

[manticle]

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/23742-ahb-wiki-the-no-chiller-method-using-a-cube/

 

[CapnK]

Hi All

Big couple of weeks planned, first AG brew planned, first time using Beersmith and first time setting up a keggerator
I'm a little concerned that using 26.74L of water to steep just over 5kgs of grains is going to make the urn overflow.

Cronessa,
If it's a 30L Birko urn or similar, you almost definitely overflow ( learnt that the hard way). Don't be afraid to hold back a couple of litres and top it up before boiling. Nothing worse than having 70deg water suddenly coming at you.
I think the quoted figure is between 0.6 and 1 litre displaced per kg of grain.

Some tips.
When heating to strike temperature shut off the element a couple of degrees below target, as it will continue to warm up. Stir the pot a little to distribute the water and make sure you have a good stable temperature.

Have some good insulation on hand for the urn, and once you put the grains in, wrap it up and don't be tempted to turn the element on unless you are down in the 50's.
(I've stuffed multiple brews by watching the temp sensor fiddling with that damn knob)

Do weigh your urn, and don't forget to input the right ambient temperature for your grain on the day. Might only swing the strike temperature a couple of degrees, but if it's a cold day it might count.

Run a little bit of wort into a bucket before any goes into the cube. Flushes out the urn tap.

Have some small cups/jugs on hand to grab samples at various points ( pre-boil, flameout etc) so you can measure SG after the fact.

Start with your Beersmith brew house efficiency in the mid 60's. You'll have slightly larger grain bill, but if you beat you efficiencies and get a higher SG then you can always water down ( more beer!).


DSGA is a great choice. Still trying to repeat the success of our first AG.

 

[Cronessa]

Thanks for all the excellent info all.

I'm keen to keep the process as simple as possible for this one just to keep myself from getting overwhelmed and to ween myself off the safety blanket of kits and bits. I'll use the grain bill outlined above to get the OG required for 19 litres into the fermentor and start with a lower mash volume. I'm thinking I'll start with 22 litres of mash water to allow for the volume of the grain bill which would make it around 27 litres (there will be a loss of 3 litres during mash), top back up to 22 litres for the boil (again there will be approximately 3 litres lost during the 90 minute boil) to leave me at 19 litres give or take. This should avoid any boil overs. Might be handy to have some LDME on hand just in case any adjustments are needed (although this would defeat my aim of all grain).

I am interested in substituting the Pilsner malt for perhaps Barrett Burston Ale 5 EBC which is supposed to be a good Ale base. Would I be able to do a straight substitute or would I need to change the weight? This is a local malt and does not seem to be in Beersmith.

Just out of interest, the Urn is a Fowlers Vacuola with an 1800 watt element that is actually used to sterilise preservative jars. I filled it this evening and it definitely holds 30 litres. Its approximately 32 cm in diameter and 37 cm high. I did a quick Google search and it seems there are at least a few people using the exact urn. I was lucky enough to score it at a trash and treasure for the princely sum of $20, it has either never been used or has been very well looked after. I have used it once before to make an American Pale Ale from a Coopers Pale Ale kit and grain instead of extract. I couldn't believe how much difference using the grain made to the finished product over the extract so I am really looking forward to the all grain.

Edit: Whilst I'm asking questions I notice that my LHBS has several types of 'Munich malt' etc, would I be hitting the mark if I choose the one that is closest to the EBC of that in the recipe?

 

[Cronessa]

Just by way of update, the brew day kicked off last Saturday. The day can only be explained as 'BIAB - what NOT to do' But if it actually turns out, it will just go to show how resilient the process can be. Plus I learned a few things and thats what its all about. Apologies for the photos being the wrong way - I'll try and work out why that's the case and change them later on.

Everything kicked off ok, got the urn up to strike temperature added the grain and got the required mash temperature. However, its important to note the tap apparatus on my urn in the following picture:



Wrapped up the urn in anything I could find, grannies woollen rug came in particularly handy. At this stage note the small puddle forming under the centre of the urn - you know where this is going don't you...



I planned to duck out to the big green shed to pick up a cube for later whilst waiting for the 90 steep. After tending to a few other things I just gave the urn a quick check before leaving. Disaster, wrapping the urn had pushed the urns tap in and caused it to open (it opens to some degree when pushed back towards the urn but not as much as when its in the true open position facing away from the urn) thank god I checked it or I would have come back to a big urn filled with soggy grain. As it happens I lost a lot of water (and associated malty goodness) about 4 litres worth. My good wife and I mopped it off the tiles of our patio - it sucked.

I quickly started boiling my electric kitchen kettle with a thermometer in it until the water temperature reached 66c and added this back in to the urn. Once I got a decent level of mash water back in at 66c I then left it for the full 90 minutes. I then picked up the cube and some LME from the local brew shop as I knew I had lost a significant amount of sugars. When I got home I stopped panicking and calmed myself down with one I'd prepared earlier (a belgian wheat beer) :beerbang:



This was my method of straining the grain, I found the extra length in the bag was good, it allowed me to tie a rope straight to the bag and then tie the actual bag to the rope, the rope was suspended from a support beam on my patio:



I took some SG readings and did some calculations as to how much malt I needed to add (it came out at about 1kg!). Everything else went smoothly including the boil:



Wacked the wort into the cube and let it stand overnight. A taste test when cool was what I'd expect the wort to taste like on the kits and bits stuff I'd done before, tasted like the right amount of bitterness / sweetness and the colour looks right (certainly golden). The SG reading was spot on. It's now fermenting away nicely at 18c. My LHBS didn't have any US05 on hand so I used BRY97. Fermentation kicked off vigorously after about 48 hours which I understand is expected with this yeast.

Anyhoo, although I still cant claim that I've done an AG brew I learnt a lot about my equipment and I'm looking forward to giving it another go. The experience certainly hasn't put me off and it looks like I may end up with a drinkable beer. I'll post again when it's time to drink.

One thing I may try next time is to reduce the batch size so I don't have to dilute. This will make it a bit easier to calculate my efficiencies and water losses.

 

[Cronessa]

All's well that ends well... Fermented for 2 weeks, final gravity was spot on. Here it is resting on the drip tray of my brand new kegerator!

 

[nzdavea]

I'd also suggest a 90 minute mash. This is the recommended mash time for BIAB.

That's a matter of opinion, and many would disagree. Depends a lot on your process.

 

[StalkingWilbur]

Nice work!!

I think that's a fairly successful 1st all grain brew day. I might be wrong, but I'd still consider it all grain even though you added some extract. You still did a real mash!

 

[Cronessa]

Nice work!!

I think that's a fairly successful 1st all grain brew day. I might be wrong, but I'd still consider it all grain even though you added some extract. You still did a real mash!

Thanks!

Well I'm happy for a first go, I won't make the same mistake with the tap twice... Looking forward to the next one.

Getting the kegerator set up wasn't as easy as planned either. Getting the John Guest tubing on my regulator and gas in \ beer out disconnects was a pain in the a.