finally starting sour program

[michaeld16]

Ok so im finally going to start brewing sour beers after much reading which usually leaves me asking more questions i thought i would ask the folk here there opinions and methods.

First question is about the use of a secondary, for my first sour beer im going to brew a flanders red and use the wyeast roselare blend, now i was going to just throw the roselare in at the start and let it go for a year is there a need for a secondary in this situation?

Second question is if i was to ferment this flanders red with us05 for a week and then throw the microbes in is this the time a secondary is a good idea and should i leave the microbes for the secondary.

Next question is about using a corny for aging in. If im using a keg for long term storage while the bugs keep doing there work am i best to give it a quick squirt of co2 to seal the keg, will the co2 that is generated impede on the bacteria culture doing its thing? Or am i better to put the lid on but not seal it?
Thanks for any help i know i should give it all a go and work it out but keen to here of others experiences.

 

[adryargument]

I left 2 100l barrels out in the rain for 14 Months with a blow off tube. Topped them up with water. Best brews ever.

I would buy an automatic pressure relief valve if your invested for the long term. Co2 layer will be generated by itself and it will form it's own protective layer of gunk.
But bugs living under pressure? Maybe not.

 

[Mickcr250]

I would add bacteria in secondary for a Flanders red as its supposed to be a bit cleaner, but its up to you really. Lambics don't use a secondary as some of the flavour comes from the Brett feeding on the dead sacch yeasts. I wouldn't worry about the bacteria working under pressure they will just keep chugging along regardless. I have actually read that some brewerys like to do this as they get a better flavour. Orval add their bacteria at bottling I think. I find the mad fermentionalist blog to be really helpful and the guy really knows his stuff.

 

[Batz]

Wyeast roselare blend is the yeast plus the bugs and that is all you need to add. I have brewed a Flanders Red and used wyeast roselare blend as well, I let the yeast (in the blend) brew out as normal and then transferred to secondary (in my case a glass carboy). It then takes a little time but a pellcle will from and then you wait............mine has been in secondary like this for 5 months, and I intend on leaving it for a total of 18 months at least.
Some brewers will about now add the dregs from their favorite commercial sour as well.
Good luck with it and keep me posted as to how it's progressing.
A good book if your interested in sours is American Sour Beers, also have a look here:


http://www.themadfermentationist.com/

Cheers Batz

 

[michaeld16]

Reading American sours at the moment and dont know how much time ive spent on the mad fermentationists blog its a great read. So batz i see what ya saying if i brew as normal forforl say 2-3 weeks in my normal bunnings water drum then transfer to my better bottle or keg for aging. This would then free up the yeast cake ready to get another sour going, do you recommend washing the trub or just pitching the next brew straight on will the yeast in the blend still be able to compete with the microbes or should add some fresh yeast.

 

[seamad]

If you're impatient to get a sour done quickly the wyeast de bom isn't too bad. Basically 1 month and it's done. Obviously lacks the complexity achieved by longer time periods, but still a very drinkable outcome.
link http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/82551-wyeast-3203-pc-de-bom/

 

[mje1980]

I brewed a Flanders with roselare. In 2 11 litre glass fermenters. After 12 months I bottled one half. It was ok. 2nd I bottled after 15 months, with Brett b at bottling. It's tasting better than the first. Yeah, I added cantillon etc dregs when I had them. I just did primary, no secondary.

 

[michaeld16]

De bom is definitely on my list to try gonna get a few long term sours on the go first wish i started 12 months ago. Thats interesting about the no secondary mje it sure seems like theres no set 1 set method when it comes to sours which is why im keen to hear others experiences.

 

[Adam Howard]

My first Flanders Red was 18 months of primary with straight Roeselare blend, turned out very mild in terms of sourness, made a bigger second batch and pitched the entire yeast/bacteria cake from that first batch into it. I've not yet bottled the second batch and it's been about 2 years. Have also done fruit sours. Did a double batch of pale wort with 50:50 split of pilsner:wheat and mash hops to 4IBU, half went onto raspberries for 3 years with Wyeast Lambic blend and Cantillon dregs. The other half went on cherries without Cantillon bugs added and was bottled after 2 years. Using dregs certainly helps boost the sourness as well as time. Now that most of my glassware is empty I plan on commencing a big sour program to fill most of them and treat them as solera's.

 

[Batz]

Anyone know of a retailer with [SIZE=1.4em]Wyeast 3203 atm ?[/SIZE]

 

[adryargument]

While we are talking yeast... Do the bugs survive freezing? I Have two packs of different yeast strands that are 2 years old... May have been frozen once or twice. Planning to knock up a 10L starter with them - i should be getting a new barrel over the weekend.

 

[barls]

Anyone know of a retailer with [SIZE=1.4em]Wyeast 3203 atm ?[/SIZE]

try ross

 

[seamad]

Anyone know of a retailer with [SIZE=1.4em]Wyeast 3203 atm ?[/SIZE]

was one of their PC blends, jul-sept2014, might be hard to find, the wyeast website doesn't let you know about future PC releases sadly.
I kegged mine so can't even send you a bottle to reculture.

 

[Mickcr250]

Big + for bottle dregs, I'm currently drinking a sour saison that is soured just with dregs from 5 bottles of my favourite sours and only 8 months old and it is beautiful and noticeably sour.

 

[mje1980]

Berlinner is a relatively quick sour as well. I've done one terrible one and one really good one. Will do another

 

[michaeld16]

So i brewed and cubed my flanders red yesterday morning recipe straight from brewing classic styles. Im a bit concerned about the amount of trub from the kettle in the bottom of the fermenter as i was planning to let this sit on the primary. What do folks here reckon will this much trub for 12+ months be an issue should i rack to secondary or just let it ride. I do like my sours face puckering so that was my reasoning for keeping it in the primary. If i was to secondary ferment this batch is seperating the trub and yeast for repitching the same process as normal? Will the bugs come along with the yeast.