Fermenting Saison Yeast at a Low Temp?

[lswhi3]

I'm pretty keen to brew a clean, refreshing, slightly citrusy saison akin to La Sirene Belle Saison or the Bridgeroad Chevalier Saison. I want to brew ASAP so that I have enough time for conditioning so that it's very drinkable by December.

I'm using an uncontrolled temperature environment, so I'm hoping to get some advice on the kind of characters I can expect from fermenting yeast at a low temp, and the type of yeast that would be most ideal for the character I'm going for.

I've heard that Belle saison yeast ferments well at 18-22C.

I'd consider the Belle and Chevalier to be very light on the traditional saison esters, which I'm guessing must suggest a low ferment temp, but I'm really not sure if fermenting at such a low temperature would produce a completely undesirable outcome.

5kg belgian pils
0.5kg wheat
50g saaz at 60mins for 20IBUs
30g saaz at whirlpool (no chill)
Belle Saison Yeast at 16-20C (could change yeast, and can add a hot water bottle.

Would appreciate any constructive criticism/advice/recipe advice

Cheers!

 

[MHB]

I love the farmhouse style of saison, also think people get a bit wound up about the fermentation temperature, sure its a yeast that likes to be a bit warmer than most ales. I would be tempted to pitch around the mid 20's, leave it at that for a couple of days then wrap a towel or two around the fermenter to let it free rise to the higher 20's, helps it finish off.

Wheat adds a nice tartness to the flavour, personally I would be thinking 25% wheat, for mine some flaked wheat/barley/oats wouldn't go astray, even a bit of bitter Curacao Orange and Coriander if you like that sort of thing...

Mark

 

[lswhi3]

I love the farmhouse style of saison, also think people get a bit wound up about the fermentation temperature, sure its a yeast that likes to be a bit warmer than most ales. I would be tempted to pitch around the mid 20's, leave it at that for a couple of days then wrap a towel or two around the fermenter to let it free rise to the higher 20's, helps it finish off.

Wheat adds a nice tartness to the flavour, personally I would be thinking 25% wheat, for mine some flaked wheat/barley/oats wouldn't go astray, even a bit of bitter Curacao Orange and Coriander if you like that sort of thing...

Mark

Would you associate a mid-20s temp with a saison as easy going on the esters as the belle and the chevalier? Because I was hoping to ferment at a lower temperature, but I'm worried such a low temp would produce something closer to a flavourless pale ale.

 

[bevan]

Black Hop's Beach House ale uses Wyeast 3711 and they ferment at 18 deg. Got that from one of the guys after emailing them about a recipe.

 

[MHB]

Well you said Bell-Saison, throws nothing like the flavours from the Wyeast mentioned above, which is what I would be using (if the farmhouse seasonal wasn't available).
Saison's have a bad habit of stalling much under mid 20s and not finishing without being given their head near the end of ferment, apparently its an adapted wine yeast and you need to treat it a bit different.
I doubt 3 days around 25 would overwhelm you with esters - I know I would be looking for more.
Mark

 

[manticle]

3724 definitely stalls in cooler 20s. 3711 though should ferment fine. Won't taste like a bland pale although I agree with mhb - good results from starting cool and letting hit mid 20+ for a bit.
Danstar belle I have no experience of so can't comment.

 

[chaositic]

I did a table strength saison with 3711 @ 21 for a few days then stuck in next to my computer for another week and half to get it warm in winter. Tiny amounts of citra, sorachi ace and amarillo to ~15 IBU rager. Tastes great and very easy drinking with a citrusy touch but probably a bit safe as far as saisons go.

 

[manticle]

Was redtube on repeat?

 

[chaositic]

Was redtube on repeat?

Dammit you're on to my secret ingredient.

 

[contrarian]

It's also not hard to make a system for setting up a system to heat a fermenter. Any cupboard or enclosed space with a bare light bulb will get the temp up where you want it and as MHB said above it is as much about getting the yeast to finish the job as the esters it throws.

 

[Killer Brew]

Love brewing saisons! Have used both Danstar Belle Saison and Wyeast 3711 multiple times. Danstar is a beast and will finish very dry. Throws plenty of funk at warm temps and find that at around 20 degrees it still gets a good amount of these. The Wyeast however I find the funkiness really drops off at 20 degrees and below. Got similar feedback at a recent comp on one brewed this Winter where it fermented at the ambient temp of 18 degrees in my brew room. They wondered if it was actually a saison yeast used.

 

[Blind Dog]

Belle Saison has worked well for me in the low-mid 20sC ambient and as KB said, finishes dry. At my normal ale fermenting temp (17C ambient) it still throws some esters and phenols, but much more restrained and works well in the lower alcohol saison I brew most summers to 3.5% ABV, but not so much for normal strength saisons where it's all a bit too muted.

 

[DeanMcMullen]

Thanks for the rolling commentary guys. After destroying a Pale Ale batch with no temp control on Nottingham yeast, I've always been scared of fermenting over 22°C, and without a temp controller. Nice to know the Saison performs well at higher temps, especially when I have to factor in the Queensland (Brisbane) weather. I've been waiting to do a Saison, and might try an ambient temp brew before the weather heats up too much more.

 

[lswhi3]

Cheers for the feedback everyone, extremely helpful. I think I'll go for the 3711 and start off at a low temp and let it rise. Might stick a hot water bottle onnit after a few days.

 

[lswhi3]

Black Hop's Beach House ale uses Wyeast 3711 and they ferment at 18 deg. Got that from one of the guys after emailing them about a recipe.

Could I grab the recipe he emailed you over from you?

 

[bevan]

Check out this link
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/index.php?/topic/90185-Black-Hops-Beach-House-Ale/page__view__findpost__p__1358821

 

[contrarian]

Thanks for the rolling commentary guys. After destroying a Pale Ale batch with no temp control on Nottingham yeast, I've always been scared of fermenting over 22°C, and without a temp controller. Nice to know the Saison performs well at higher temps, especially when I have to factor in the Queensland (Brisbane) weather. I've been waiting to do a Saison, and might try an ambient temp brew before the weather heats up too much more.

It's the beauty of saison a for summer brewing! They love the heat and I'll happily push them up around 30 with no ill effects, as long as you don't mind a bit of funk. Amazing how different the yeasts can be as well. My favourites so far are the wyeast farmhouse ale PC but not always available and the yeast bay saison blend. Both very dry but the yeast bay is a little more tart. Also loved the yeast bay saison Brett blend if you're into that sort of thing!

 

[Tex083]

Do a Google search for Drew Beechum citra saison. I want to brew it next as it sounds tops.
www.maltosefalcons.com/tech/guide-saisons-and-saison-yeasts
Is another good tool.
Start ferment cool for 2-3 days - depending on OG and allow to free rise til done. I did this with 3711 recently and it's a great drop

 

[bullsneck]

I'd suggest altering the starting gravity before changing the temperature. Most Saison yeasts will chew through to <1.005. If you were to start about 1.045, you're already pushing 5% at the very least. The higher gravity will push esters and alcohol flavours, which is what I gather you are aiming to subdue.

 

[Tahoose]

Belle saison is a beast of a yeast. Even at 17-18 I wouldn't be surprised if it fermented a normal saison grain bill down to around 1.002.

Why not ferment around this temp for 10days and bump up a couple of degrees if it's not finished.