Fermenters

[Georgedgerton]

Some time back I purchased the old generation of Fermentasaurus, thinking how good it would be to have those conical bottom advantages. Like most there were the initial leaky valve issues that I eventuall came up with my own wasy of fixing, only to find out it didn't really work because of blockages and the boring job of completely stripping the valve to properly sanitise. Time for new fermenters and I'm asking myself are those conicals are really worth the extra and difficult task of cleaning compared to the advantages gained from them? thinking about replacing with the simpler Kegland Fermzilla all rounders. Any input or thoughts from you folk?

 

[Sidney Harbour-Bridge]

KK snubby and chubby do the same thing and were cheaper with the pressure kit when I last bought one, also use a different material or process which makes them less susceptible to cracking.

I like the Chubby particularly as I can fit 2 in my lagering freezer

 

[Grmblz]

https://www.keg-king.com.au/fermentasaurus-snub-nose-gen2.html Probably the best deal around for what you are talking about, and add https://www.keg-king.com.au/35l-snub-nose-thermowell-upgrade-kit.html for an end to lid sealing woes, be aware it doesn't fit the chubby (unfortunately)

 

[S.E]

For simplicity, no fuss easy use and fast easy cleaning HDPE fermenters do the job just fine and can last many years. As they can be cleaned with hot, even boiling water the whole fermenter can be hot washed in 10 minutes or less ready for use.

30L HDPE Fermenter Kit

https://www.keg-king.com.au/30l-fer...ck-grommet-and-stick-on-thermometer.html.html

 

[mynameisrodney]

I have 1 all rounder and 2 chubbies. If I was just buying a single one I would get an all rounder. It is far quicker to clean as you can get your hand in there. Also it's way thicker and doesn't buckle all the time like the chubbies do. Also with the chubbies. But as mentioned by Sid, the chubbies are a good shape for fitting 2 of them in a standard fridge. This was my main reason for buying them and they are good for that purpose.

 

[Ditchnbeer]

The snubnose is a great choice, all hops yeast etc drop out nicely to the bottom, and allow pickup of clear beer after cold crashing. Many with these are now doing closed transfer to keg, and even flushing kegs of O2 with Co2 during fermentation, so avoiding contact with oxygen during kegging and keeping 'freshness' of hop aroma of the beer in the keg. I have one lid for fermentation, with simple airlock and thermowell, then a second for pressurising and transfer. Works a treat.

 

[mynameisrodney]

If you're changing lids after fermentation then you aren't really getting an O2 free process though

 

[duncbrewer]

I have gen 1 2 3 and 4 fermentasaurus and get on well with them now that I've learnt their foibles.

Gen 1 needs an extra O ring in the body of the butterfly valve and that stops it leaking by just squeezing the butterfly valve a bit more, this makes it a gen 2.

Gen 3 had a bigger butterfly valve and less prone to blocking.

Gen 4 has a plunger instead of the butterfly valve, great idea but if you pressure ferment ( which is what you want to do with a pressure rated fermenter ) it's tricky. To empty the bottle push plunger down and ensure locked in fully, change bottle slowly to depressurise and avoid a yeast wash of yourself and the walls.
I washout and sanitise the bottle and then refill it to the brim with beer / foam via the liquid post and a party tap and having spray cleaned the bit where the bottle came out with starsan I screw it back together. Then your problems begin. Butterfly valve you turn and it all rushes into the main body and mixes etc.
Try pulling the plunger up with 25 litres of beer and 15+ psi of pressure and you have a struggle on your hands, keg kings answer was to depressurise the fermentasaurus what's the point of that. Very irritating. Basically only good as a conical fermenter not under pressure, I tend to use it only for wine now or no pressure ferments that I could have done in a bucket anyway.

I don't dry hop via the bottle hopeless, just use bags and magnets put in at the start of ferment and slid into beer when needed.

So Gen 3 the best fermentasaurus, I drop the yeast and trub out and happily ferment up to 30 psi with them on occasion. But they take up more space than the chubbys and snub noses.
Overall they are like Marmite.

 

[Sidney Harbour-Bridge]

....Overall they are like Marmite.

?

Better than Vegemite?

 

[duncbrewer]

Err you can't do this with Vegemite.

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/marmite-ale-camden-town-beer-b1911215.html

 

[Westheimer]

Some time back I purchased the old generation of Fermentasaurus, thinking how good it would be to have those conical bottom advantages. Like most there were the initial leaky valve issues that I eventuall came up with my own wasy of fixing, only to find out it didn't really work because of blockages and the boring job of completely stripping the valve to properly sanitise. Time for new fermenters and I'm asking myself are those conicals are really worth the extra and difficult task of cleaning compared to the advantages gained from them? thinking about replacing with the simpler Kegland Fermzilla all rounders. Any input or thoughts from you folk?

Been down the fermzilla road and two of them busted on me for no good reason, after all they are supposed to be pressurerisable.
Now use converted corny kegs. No drama sanitising, use any pressure your heart desires. Hot wort goes straight in from the boil. Into the fermentation fridge they go, yeast pitched next day, iSpindel chucked in and away it goes.
Usually divide 28ltrs into two and daisy chain them.
Oh, did I say cheap as chips.
Cheers all

 

[Grok]

Try pulling the plunger up with 25 litres of beer and 15+ psi of pressure and you have a struggle on your hands, keg kings answer was to depressurise the fermentasaurus what's the point of that.

Ummmm,.... to temporarily take off the pressure!!!! So you CAN do those things! I have been using a 55L FZ for a few years with no pressure related issues at all, apart from some of the moulded plastic surfaces around the O ring compression seals not being smooth enough on some earlier versions, which I believe has been addressed now. There was no problem sealing, just to grippy when trying to undo the bowl.
I usually chill down before changing the bowl out, that helps to stop any fizzing when pressure is temporarily lowered.

 

[Keg King]

I have gen 1 2 3 and 4 fermentasaurus and get on well with them now that I've learnt their foibles.

Gen 1 needs an extra O ring in the body of the butterfly valve and that stops it leaking by just squeezing the butterfly valve a bit more, this makes it a gen 2.

Gen 3 had a bigger butterfly valve and less prone to blocking.

Gen 4 has a plunger instead of the butterfly valve, great idea but if you pressure ferment ( which is what you want to do with a pressure rated fermenter ) it's tricky. To empty the bottle push plunger down and ensure locked in fully, change bottle slowly to depressurise and avoid a yeast wash of yourself and the walls.
I washout and sanitise the bottle and then refill it to the brim with beer / foam via the liquid post and a party tap and having spray cleaned the bit where the bottle came out with starsan I screw it back together. Then your problems begin. Butterfly valve you turn and it all rushes into the main body and mixes etc.
Try pulling the plunger up with 25 litres of beer and 15+ psi of pressure and you have a struggle on your hands, keg kings answer was to depressurise the fermentasaurus what's the point of that. Very irritating. Basically only good as a conical fermenter not under pressure, I tend to use it only for wine now or no pressure ferments that I could have done in a bucket anyway.

I don't dry hop via the bottle hopeless, just use bags and magnets put in at the start of ferment and slid into beer when needed.

So Gen 3 the best fermentasaurus, I drop the yeast and trub out and happily ferment up to 30 psi with them on occasion. But they take up more space than the chubbys and snub noses.
Overall they are like Marmite.

I make a point of not really coming to this forum but feel the need to answer this post. Keg King is not aware of a Gen 4 as we never made one (Gen 2 had the bigger Butterfly valve). The easiest way to pull the plunger up is to gently squeeze the collection bottle but be careful not to unscrew it as that will result in mess. Depressurising will also work and you will not get any oxygen in if you do it carefully. Squeezing the collection bottle to a smaller volume is also good when you want to get a proper seal on the plunger. Just use a bit of commons sense and maybe practice it with some water when you have a spare moment. There are many thousands of these in use as pressure fermenters around the world and by and large they do a good job and do not explode.

 

[S.E]

I have gen 1 2 3 and 4 fermentasaurus and get on well with them now that I've learnt their foibles.

I have used the gen 1, 2, 3 and 4 HDPE fermenter and got on well with all of them.

The Gen 1 was a simple bucket with a snap on lid, no tap so siphon to secondary.

The gen 2 comes with a very handy tap, screw on lid with a sealing ring and airlock.

The gen 3 is similar to the gen 2 but the lid and airlock are thrown away and the sealing ring is used to secure clingfilm over the top of the fermenter instead.

The gen 4 is also like the gen 2 but it goes back to the screw on sealed lid and uses a blow off tube instead of the airlock.

 

[duncbrewer]

I make a point of not really coming to this forum but feel the need to answer this post. Keg King is not aware of a Gen 4 as we never made one (Gen 2 had the bigger Butterfly valve). The easiest way to pull the plunger up is to gently squeeze the collection bottle but be careful not to unscrew it as that will result in mess. Depressurising will also work and you will not get any oxygen in if you do it carefully. Squeezing the collection bottle to a smaller volume is also good when you want to get a proper seal on the plunger. Just use a bit of commons sense and maybe practice it with some water when you have a spare moment. There are many thousands of these in use as pressure fermenters around the world and by and large they do a good job and do not explode.

Thanks for the reply . My apologies re the nomenclature.
Maybe it was just a gen 1 a and 1b with the extra Oring in it to stop it leaking? There was this difference in the range?

My point is about the plunger on Gen 3 , not much point depressurising a pressure ferment to allow you to reopen the plunger.
You cannot "gently squeeze the bottle " and pull the plunger up under 15 psi or more pressure, you might be able to squeeze it very hard in both hands and get a friend to haul the plunger up but mechanically one hand squeeze the bottle and use your other hand to pull up the plunger, no way. We'd love to see a video of you doing this if it's possible.

Regarding "you will not get any oxygen in if you do it carefully", " Just use a bit of commons sense and maybe practice it with some water".
My technique gleaned from videos on line and my own experience with the other butterfly versions is to close valve (and tried this with plunger version several times ), slowly unscrew the bottle over a container so that the pressure releases along with yeast etc leaking out. This takes several minutes unless you want a beer and yeast wash!
Once bottle depressurised unscrew it, empty wash sanitise and spray the valve opening area, thread etc with sanitiser to wash it down.
Refill the bottle with beer from the FS using a party tap, you get lots of foam and fill it to the brim with beer or foam and then refit the bottle. This way no room for oxygen or very little oxygen.
Then just turn butterfly valve and it all mixes up and further trub drops down.
You can't pull the plunger up with the plunger version unless you depressurise or perhaps have the vice like grip of superman.

I appreciate your "commons sense" is different to mine but please don't condescend the many of us who use your products. I've done many happy brews with FS 1 and 2, but No 3 isn't the same and no amount of water practice will change the laws of physics.
I've never suggested your FS explodes in the many posts I've made and have even linked to your youtube video of a torture test you did on a fermenter with turbo yeast to show how resilient the pet fermenter is. Not only that I've torture tested one of my fermentasaurus with an accidental ferment at 35 psi and it survives and the beer did too.

 

[Keg King]

Thanks for the reply . My apologies re the nomenclature.
Maybe it was just a gen 1 a and 1b with the extra Oring in it to stop it leaking? There was this difference in the range?

My point is about the plunger on Gen 3 , not much point depressurising a pressure ferment to allow you to reopen the plunger.
You cannot "gently squeeze the bottle " and pull the plunger up under 15 psi or more pressure, you might be able to squeeze it very hard in both hands and get a friend to haul the plunger up but mechanically one hand squeeze the bottle and use your other hand to pull up the plunger, no way. We'd love to see a video of you doing this if it's possible.

Regarding "you will not get any oxygen in if you do it carefully", " Just use a bit of commons sense and maybe practice it with some water".
My technique gleaned from videos on line and my own experience with the other butterfly versions is to close valve (and tried this with plunger version several times ), slowly unscrew the bottle over a container so that the pressure releases along with yeast etc leaking out. This takes several minutes unless you want a beer and yeast wash!
Once bottle depressurised unscrew it, empty wash sanitise and spray the valve opening area, thread etc with sanitiser to wash it down.
Refill the bottle with beer from the FS using a party tap, you get lots of foam and fill it to the brim with beer or foam and then refit the bottle. This way no room for oxygen or very little oxygen.
Then just turn butterfly valve and it all mixes up and further trub drops down.
You can't pull the plunger up with the plunger version unless you depressurise or perhaps have the vice like grip of superman.

I appreciate your "commons sense" is different to mine but please don't condescend the many of us who use your products. I've done many happy brews with FS 1 and 2, but No 3 isn't the same and no amount of water practice will change the laws of physics.
I've never suggested your FS explodes in the many posts I've made and have even linked to your youtube video of a torture test you did on a fermenter with turbo yeast to show how resilient the pet fermenter is. Not only that I've torture tested one of my fermentasaurus with an accidental ferment at 35 psi and it survives and the beer did too.

You don't have to release all of the pressure and yes I have tried this. Will see if we can get you a short video but with lockdown its a bit hard to do all that we would like to right now. Apologies if you felt I was condescending. Been through many a discussion about CO2 ingress and really don't want to do go through all the pros and cons yet again of opening up the lid or dry hop port but can assure you that many people are not having any issues with this. 35 psi ferments are not unknown also I can assure you. Anyway I am out of here but if I can help you with something else specifically feel free to PM.

 

[Grmblz]

I have used the gen 1, 2, 3 and 4 HDPE fermenter and got on well with all of them.

It's a journey many of us have made although you forgot to give an honourable mention to the gen 1.5, the clip on lid bucket with a tap! (Ahh the luxury)

@Georgedgerton I'm with duncbrewer on the FS's, if I'm using a conical then the one with the larger valve is my preferred unit, I haven't used the Gen 3 with plunger so can't comment on it.

To really answer your question though you have to look at your process's,
The advent of floating dip tubes on pressure vessels has made oxygen free racking feasible, but nowhere near as convenient as just dumping from a conical, using an all rounder/chubby etc you'll ferment (under pressure or not) then seal it up and use pressure (gas) to transfer off the trub to another vessel, (another all rounder/chubby?) hoping that hop matter doesn't block anything and then onto keg/bottle. So we now have two fermenters to clean and store, you already know how it goes with a conical, ferment, dump, keg/bottle, clean one vessel. You may decide that cleaning two rounders/chubbies is easier/quicker than cleaning a conical, and storing an extra fermenter isn't an issue.
Harvesting yeast is another plus for the conical, but only if you do it.
Often overlooked is physical effort, lifting and carrying 25kg plus, isn't everyone's idea of fun, and using two fermenters as opposed to one will result in extra lifting/carrying.
Maybe you're an extract brewer, in which case HDPE rather than PET might be preferable as boiling water to melt the goop will make short work of any PET vessel.
Perhaps you "like to watch" I find it strangely satisfying looking at a fermentation in progress, so +1 for PET's.

If you only ever ferment one type of thing using the exact same process every time then perhaps there is the "ideal" fermenter, but I've got HDPE gen 1 to gen 4, PET conicals, FKJ's, a couple of kegmenters, and various glass carboys, what I'm fermenting and how I'm doing it determines which vessel gets used, I wish there was a one vessel does it all, good luck with your quest.

 

[mynameisrodney]

Why would you transfer to a second chubby/all rounder? I've never done this. There are less steps than dumping the trub, not more. Also never had a post blocked by hops. Once you cold crash its all on the bottom anyway.

 

[S.E]

It's a journey many of us have made although you forgot to give an honourable mention to the gen 1.5, the clip on lid bucket with a tap! (Ahh the luxury)

I never had the 1.5 bucket with tap. My buckets only had the push on tight fitting lid with a 1/4” hole to let out CO2. It was recommended to leave the lid off and open ferment for a day or two then fit the lid near the end as fermentation settled down. Then siphon to secondary, cask or bottle.

 

[Grmblz]

Why would you transfer to a second chubby/all rounder? It's called racking, the purpose of which is to remove all the **** from the brew leaving just live yeast (which will mostly be in suspension not sitting on the bottom) and yet to be fermented wort, what you rack into is irrelevant, although a pressure vessel capable of oxygen free transfers seems to make more sense than a bucket.
I've never done this. Given your previous question it doesn't surprise me, has it occurred to you that just because you don't do something doesn't mean it doesn't/shouldn't get done?
There are less steps than dumping the trub, not more. Please rephrase this so I can understand what it is you are trying to convey, alternatively read my post again, it's fairly self explanatory, how on earth can a cone dump be more labour intensive than racking.
Also never had a post blocked by hops. You're either remarkably lucky or a brewer that doesn't dry hop
Once you cold crash its all on the bottom anyway. See my comment ^ re: racking.

Ok, so your process involves crashing onto all the crap in the bottom of your fermenter, and then either not dry hopping or putting them in a bag, after ??? days of the beer sitting on all that **** you package, maybe you bottle? no blocked poppets that way, if the beer you produce is the beer you like then that's fine, but the OP was asking for opinions about fermenters, and I was merely trying to point out that in an ideal world process should drive the equipment, not equipment drive the process.
fwiw next brew you do (make it one you're familiar with, and not silly OG) after 5 days transfer it to another fermenter leaving all the stuff in the "bottom" behind. You might be surprised at the difference.