Feedback On First Biab Ag + No-chill

[crundle]

So crundle, what changes did you find made the most difference to your efficiency?

I'm in a similar situation to the OP in that I've recently started biab and getting low efficiencies. Its gradually getting better though. I've gone from 55% on my first to 66% on my fourth. My biggest improvement came from a good thorough stir at the beginning and end of the mash.

At first I was using the element on the urn to keep the temperature stable, but this only heated up the grain at the bottom of the urn, which acted like a blanket trapping the heat, so my temps were in fact far too low above the grain bed. I switched to BribieG's method of wrapping the urn in a doonah and blankets for 90 minutes and found an immediate improvement in both efficiency and being able to target my final gravity.

Secondly, I learnt to pour in the grain and stir it in a way that did not give me any doughballs, so I wasn't wasting time stirring after the grain was poured in, losing temperature. This helped a fair bit too I feel, and allowed me to better target my mash temperatures.

Next I checked the thermometer I was using and found it was out by about 3 degrees, so that one went, and I learnt to calibrate my thermometers every now and then.

Next I began to target my boil by volume instead of time. My urn is lacking in guts on the boil, and if I were limited to a 90 minute boil, sometimes I would reach my evaporation rates and other times not, so now I put in 30 litres of water for each brew, mash, mashout, and then squeeze out the bag. I then work on sparging the grain bag in a bucket with how ever many litres of boiling water I am short of 30 litres in the urn. If I find I am at 27 litres, then I sparge the bag with 3 litres of boiling water in a bucket, and add the runnings to the urn and start the boil. It adds more boil time, but makes my brew day much more consistent.

I then boil the wort until I get to 27 litres in the urn, and THEN begin my one hour hops additions. Now the clock is ticking and the boil has to finish in an hour, but I will always get to a fairly consistent volume at the end of the hour, and fill my cube.

By boiling to volume and sparging to get back to 30 litres, I have found my efficiency is a fairly consistent 75% on most brews around 5kg grain bills, and doesn't drop too far below that for larger grain bills up to 9kg.

Taking comprehensive notes has been another big input into improving my brewing, as little things that may not appear at the time to be important can, on later reflection, turn out to be the key to fixing problems.

cheers,

Crundle

 

[bkmad]

Thanks crundle, that gives me a few things to work on.

 

[boobiedazzler]

An update

The first one has been done and it came in at 1.042, quite below my target. I'm not too worried though, but plan to do a similar grain bill tomorrow with an Aussie style ale but this time I will pulverise some grains - in the end I didnt do that for the first brew. I will also allow for a bit more evaporation, because I had enough wort over the first time.

my realistic target tomorrow, based on the first one, is to get a 1.052 wort into the cube without adding any more weight in grain. Fingers crossed.

I should add that Urn BIAB and no-chill makes brewday so easy. So glad I went down this path.

 

[katzke]

An update

The first one has been done and it came in at 1.042, quite below my target. I will also allow for a bit more evaporation, because I had enough wort over the first time.

I should add that Urn BIAB and no-chill makes brewday so easy. So glad I went down this path.

Do I read this correct? You had too much water?

If so, you can boil longer or just start with less water.

Hitting you final volume is as important as mashing correctly for gravity. If you ended up with 22 liters instead of 20 your expected gravity for the 20 liters would be 1.046. If you ended up with 24 liters the expected gravity for 20 would be 1.050.

 

[boobiedazzler]

Yep, that's right katzke I recorded my starting volume as 34cm, and since determined that this roughly equals 34 litres, not the intended 32. I also left the lid partially on when I was boiling so that would have impeded evaporation a bit.I should have measured the leftover wert, oh well, an idea for next time.

No worries for me though. I dont mind slightly lower alc beers, it means I can drink more. Later today I'll be kicking off my AG Recipe #2 with some new considerations in mind, so we'll see how the FG end up on that. Planning to do four recipes regularly - an APA, an Aussie Ale, a Wheat & a Brown Ale - then by the time I get back to the beginning I would have tasted the first one, and roll out again with adjustments to improve the brew etc.

Today Im going to do an Aussie Ale with a starting volume of 32 litres, 4.5k Ale malt, 500g wheat malt and 250g cooked rice. Havent worked out the hops yet - will be straight POR, without much bitterness or flavour additions.
Based on absolutely no calculations whatsoever, I'll be happy if I get above 1050 into the cube.

 

[crundle]

The final volume will be the biggest factor in hitting your target gravity from my experiences with an urn and BIAB.

What type of urn is it? Mine is a Crown, which has a fairly poor boil unless it is modded to remove the anti-boil dry protection, which improves the boil markedly. Let me know if it is the Crown, as this will help your evaporation greatly.

For today's brew, try boiling the wort after mashing for much longer BEFORE adding your hops. Get it down to around 25cms (assuming this would be close to 25 litres) then start your hop additions. You will be much closer to your target gravity, and you can always dilute with water in the fermenter if you find that you are above your target.

This was probably the biggest problem I had getting my targets, but with the modification to help the boil, and boiling to a volume and not a time prior to the one hour hop addition, I am now able to hit my targets with great accuracy, and hit a respectable 75% efficiency each time.

cheers,

Matt

 

[crundle]

Just a consideration with the rice addition, if it is still hot, as in just cooked, it will effect your mash temperature slightly, not much of an issue for that amount, but when I do a Bribie fake light lager with 2.5kg of grain and 1kg of rice, it raises the temperature by 1 degree so I have to allow for that with my strike water temperature.

You sound like you have a good plan going, making small adjustments as you progress. A few more brews under the belt and you will look back on your first brews and laugh at some of the mistakes you made, I know I do now!

I love my urn, easy to brew in the one vessel, and a quick clean up on brew day. Speaking of which, I think it is time to get a Munich Dunkel brewed today, off to heat up the water, have a great brew day mate!

cheers,

Crundle

 

[boobiedazzler]

Im using a Birko, and it boiled really well, even on a cold windy day. As for mistakes, its a bit early to say but Im quite happy with 1042 for the first one. Sure its not ideal, but with any luck it'll ferment out nicely to somewhere over the 4% ABV mark.

Watch this space - today I'm willing myself for 1050 ! A smaller pre-mash volume and a longer boil just might do it.

Appreciate the ongoing comments from all members.

 

[crundle]

The boil on the Birko is good from what I am told, so that part of it should be fine, just target that final volume and 1.050 is more than achievable.

cheers,

Crundle

 

[katzke]

The boil on the Birko is good from what I am told, so that part of it should be fine, just target that final volume and 1.050 is more than achievable.

cheers,

Crundle

Oh ya, we did a black IPA that came in at 1.070 with no trouble. Or if you are a traditionalist a Cascadia Dark Ale or what ever they want to call it.

 

[boobiedazzler]

That's good to know that higher than average beers can be done. When I get the hang of the mash & boil side of it all, my plan is to make over-target beers as 20l in the cube so I can water it down in the fermenter. I bottle my beers, so it makes more sense to have more litres come capping day. That's one part of it all that I dont really love so much but cant see myself kegging anytime in the future.

On this beer that I am doing today, its mashing right now. Im expecting 1050 in 22 litres, with 4.5 Ale, 500g wheat and 250g rice. How does this hopping sound?

25g POR 11% - 45 mins
10g POR 11% - in cube
15g POR 11% - Dry Hop after 4 days in ferment

I'll tell you my reasoning behind the dull and mellow hopping. I really want to try a standard, light summery beer, kind of like a VB or even Corona. For one thing it wont be lager, but fermented with WL Cali Ale Yeast. I dont actually like any of these beers, im a sucker for the new american styles and Im sure it will taste nothing like VB, but the idea is to perfect an all-round style for all palletes. And to also observe the subtelties in flavours that wont be masked by heavy malt or hop flavours.

Does that make any sense ?

 

[boobiedazzler]

just noticed katzke your in the US. When I say VB it refers to a really plain, headache inducing popular beer in Australia. Probably like your Budweiser or other big commercial stuff that mainstream australians are obsessed with for no real reason.