Fcuck you Tasmania

[bradsbrew]

The funny thing is that the Gov is now paying 3rd party "organisations" to " manage" apprentices....


What a ******* joke

Stu, still quite a few apprentices going through the public sector, obviously a lot less than back in your day because the govt has sold off a lot of its depts, what are these 3rd party apprentice management organisations that the govt are paying?

 

[dago001]

Get a keg ready for the hand pump.

Funnily enough, just need a Fullers London Pride clone.

 

[pedleyr]

I'm ******* jealous of you Tassie blokes, wish I could relocate there.

I know that the idea of people retiring to Tasmania may not be popular with you but I fully intend to, great place, great people. I hope the issues confronting the state can be sorted out.

 

[pedleyr]

In 1979 there were 136,000 apprentices in Australia (source)
Population: 14.3 million (source)

In May 2012, there were 219,300 people aged 15–64 years who were employed as apprentices or trainees and part of the Australian Apprenticeship Scheme (source)
Population (June 2012): 22.6 million (source)

So, from 1979 to May 2012, there was a 61.25% increase in the number of apprentices.

Over only a one month longer period, the population increased by ~58%.

Anyone care to comment on the "apprenticeship issue" in light of some actual facts? Falsifiable statements would obviously be preferred.

I do say that my understanding is that the number of apprentices is on a current downward trend but within the usual range of fluctuation. Could the system be better? Perhaps, but its pretty interesting to see how gut feelings and anecdotal experiences stack up to actual facts.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Stu, still quite a few apprentices going through the public sector, obviously a lot less than back in your day because the govt has sold off a lot of its depts, what are these 3rd party apprentice management organisations that the govt are paying?

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

, what are these 3rd party apprentice management organisations that the govt are paying?

You really are out of the loop Brad

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

In May 2012, there were 219,300 people aged 15–64 years who were employed as apprentices or trainees and part of the Australian Apprenticeship Scheme (source)

Nice manipulation of figures,,,,how many actual apprentices are there under the age of 22....

 

[pedleyr]

Sorry what's your point? The figures are the figures, I quoted that from the source.

The figures from 1979 are like for like best I can see. So I take it you have no comment on the actual facts?

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

What are the actual figures for apprenticeships, not the combined bullshit of " trainees"..


That is my point.

 

[pedleyr]

Have to follow up here. Even if I or someone else did manipulate the figures there by specifying an age range (the same range as all employment and workforce participation age ranges mind you) what would it mean in context here?

Unless you have something to suggest that there were a statistically significant number of apprentices aged outside of 15-64 in 1979 I'm genuinely lost as to what relevance your comment has.

My view is that this vague manipulation accusation is a complete straw man on your part but I'm happy to hear you clarify.

 

[pedleyr]

What are the actual figures for apprenticeships, not the combined bullshit of " trainees"..


That is my point.

OK well that's not what you said, thanks for clarifying. Can I ask if you've read the source? It contains a definition of what is included.

Can you also clarify what your actual position is? Is it that there are fewer apprentices now than some earlier time?

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

What are the current figures for Apprecticeships. NOT traineeships

How do they compare to those of 10 years ago

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

OK well that's not what you said, thanks for clarifying. Can I ask if you've read the source? It contains a definition of what is included.

Can you also clarify what your actual position is? Is it that there are fewer apprentices now than some earlier time?

how many actual apprentices are there under the age of 22....

Thats what I said

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

OK well that's not what you said, thanks for clarifying. Can I ask if you've read the source? It contains a definition of what is included.

I actually did say that. Please read what I actually said, not what you thought I said

 

[pedleyr]

Why does under the age of 22 matter?

If the numbers overall have increased since 1979 then how does that not speak for itself? Unless there is anything to suggest that the age of apprentices has changed (and there isn't).

From my source:

"In 2008, the definition for apprentices and trainees changed from those employed as apprentices/trainees to include only those with a formal contract under the Australian Apprenticeship Scheme. Therefore data on apprentices from previous years are not directly comparable to 2008 and subsequent data. Note that Australian School-based Apprenticeships are excluded."

From the glossary of the 2012 numbers - "An apprentice is a person aged 15–64 years who has entered into a legal contract (called a training agreement or contract of training) with an employer, to serve a period of training for the purpose of attaining tradesperson status in a recognised trade. In this survey, apprentices are identified by their answer to a question specifically pertaining to the Australian Apprenticeship Scheme. Note that Australian School-based Apprenticeships are excluded"

In short the numbers are probably slightly understated.

If you think that definition doesn't encompass your concerns then can you clarify how it doesn't?

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Have you tried to get an apprenticeship over the age of 22...

 

[pedleyr]

I actually did say that. Please read what I actually said, not what you thought I said

You did after my first comment, but not before. But I'm not here to bicker over semantics, I'm happy to concede move on from that if it progresses the discussion on the relevant points.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Why does under the age of 22 matter?

If the numbers overall have increased since 1979 then how does that not speak for itself? Unless there is anything to suggest that the age of apprentices has changed (and there isn't).

From my source:

"In 2008, the definition for apprentices and trainees changed from those employed as apprentices/trainees to include only those with a formal contract under the Australian Apprenticeship Scheme. Therefore data on apprentices from previous years are not directly comparable to 2008 and subsequent data. Note that Australian School-based Apprenticeships are excluded."

From the glossary of the 2012 numbers - "An apprentice is a person aged 15–64 years who has entered into a legal contract (called a training agreement or contract of training) with an employer, to serve a period of training for the purpose of attaining tradesperson status in a recognised trade. In this survey, apprentices are identified by their answer to a question specifically pertaining to the Australian Apprenticeship Scheme. Note that Australian School-based Apprenticeships are excluded"

In short the numbers are probably slightly understated.

If you think that definition doesn't encompass your concerns then can you clarify how it doesn't?

No manipluation of data there....

 

[pedleyr]

Have you tried to get an apprenticeship over the age of 22...

I completely agree, but you realise that supports my data? That although technically a broader range is included, anecdotally the majority will be under 22. Moreover that doesn't even matter unless there is anything to suggest a change in age composition.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

so your saying......?