Faux Lager

[buttersd70]

well, I agree 100% with warras calculation on the contribution to bitterness from the kit. As far as the IBU, he is also right that most bo pils are in the region of high 30's to 40, but budvar (which is the one that you mentioned specifically as liking) is a bit of a standout, in that it is maltier than many of the others. So it really depends on what you're personally after....

Basically, anything from 62-75% bugu would work really well. (edit, it would still work fairly higher, but would be a much more hop driven beer). 62 would be more 'budvar like', 75% would be more bitter, and is high enough that the hop would dominate, but not overpower.

I'm not sure if you're familiar with bugu, qik...but in a nutshell, IBU/OG=BUGU. Rearanging this gives BUGU x OG=IBU, or IBU/BUGU=OG. That way, you can scale the recipe how you want it and still maintain the correct balance.

 

[Bribie G]

Steeping grains is something I'd like to give a go actually Bribie. I was almost going to get a kg of some sort of "steepable" grain as part of my Craftbrewer order today, but didn't know which sort to get..

Anyway, if I do go with the Canadian Toucan, what sort of hop schedule would you recommend for a 15-20min boil?

Edit: Just read your post Butters. What would you recommend? Same as Warra, or a slightly shorter boil to add a few less IBU?

For a lager a good 'steepable' grain is Carapils, if you get a kilo it should do you for three or four brews. When I first used it I thought "What is this stuff actually doing?" because the steepings didn't taste sweet or anything, but once the beers matured and became drinkable I could taste this nice malty grainy aftertaste and the head retention etc was brilliant.

I would personally go Saaz (German or Czech which has a lot lower IBU than the Kiwi Saaz B ), maybe 20 g for 20 mins and 25g for five mins. (half the pack if you buy from Ross)

 

[QIK86]

well, I agree 100% with warras calculation on the contribution to bitterness from the kit. As far as the IBU, he is also right that most bo pils are in the region of high 30's to 40, but budvar (which is the one that you mentioned specifically as liking) is a bit of a standout, in that it is maltier than many of the others. So it really depends on what you're personally after....

Basically, anything from 62-75% bugu would work really well. (edit, it would still work fairly higher, but would be a much more hop driven beer). 62 would be more 'budvar like', 75% would be more bitter, and is high enough that the hop would dominate, but not overpower.

I'm not sure if you're familiar with bugu, qik...but in a nutshell, IBU/OG=BUGU. Rearanging this gives BUGU x OG=IBU, or IBU/BUGU=OG. That way, you can scale the recipe how you want it and still maintain the correct balance.

Brewing is so much more technical than I ever realised. :wacko:

I've heard BUGU mentioned before, but never had any understanding of what it was. I've had a play around and come up with some numbers. Feel free to correct me if needed..

1.7kg can of Coopers Canadian Blonde (18.3 IBU) plus 2kg LLME, made up to 23lt will give an OG of 1.049.

Target IBU: 32 (I know this is less than a Bo Pils, but I'm not necessarily making one. )

This would give a BUGU of 65.31%, which would be right where Butters recommended.

So, I would need to add 13.7 IBU using Czech Saaz pellets (AA4.0%). If I boil 1kg of the LLME made up to 5lt with water, that would give a boil gravity of 1.062. How much hops and how long a boil would I then need to extract the 13.7 IBU?

 

[buttersd70]

Brewing is so much more technical than I ever realised. :wacko:

I've heard BUGU mentioned before, but never had any understanding of what it was. I've had a play around and come up with some numbers. Feel free to correct me if needed..

1.7kg can of Coopers Canadian Blonde (18.3 IBU) plus 2kg LLME, made up to 23lt will give an OG of 1.049.

Target IBU: 32 (I know this is less than a Bo Pils, but I'm not necessarily making one. )

This would give a BUGU of 65.31%, which would be right where Butters recommended.

So, I would need to add 13.7 IBU using Czech Saaz pellets (AA4.0%).

100% perfect understanding, quik.

The BUGU is a guide that is imperfect, but it helps. (there is another style called BV or bittering value, that is more accurate. If I fail to post a link by tommorrow, pm me to remind me....but atm, i'm tired and emotional :lol: )

If I boil 1kg of the LLME made up to 5lt with water, that would give a boil gravity of 1.062. How much hops and how long a boil would I then need to extract the 13.7 IBU?

at 4%AA, for what you said....14g for 15min. Any addition at flameout would be fine (adds aroma but negligable bitterness), say another 15g. Basically, tinseths online calculator would give you these figures as well....enter the full volume, but the boil grav.

 

[peas_and_corn]

If you want lager characteristics from an ale yeast, go for wyeast california common- it's the yeast used in steam beers, which is essentially an ale with lager characteristics.

 

[Philthy79]

Saw this article guys, and put it in yesterday

Coopers Canadian
150gm grain enhancer steeped for 25 mins with czech saaz hop plugs
1kg mix dext, malt and corn syrup
us-05 yeast

once done was thinking of dry hopping keg with hallertau tea bag, any thoughts?

 

[drsmurto]

Butters, I'm struggling to get temps below 22C at the moment with the fermenter on the kitchen bench, surrounded by ice bottles and a wet towel. I can get an old not working fridge from my brother that I may gut and try out with more frozen bottles. I've actually got a frozen 15 litre cube from a fresh wort kit waiting in the freezer for this purpose. Hopefully it will work well.

So for yeast, I'll most likely use US-05 for this one, as I'm not sure how effective the old fridge idea will be, but may look into the Wyeast California Lager yeast if I do another one.

What about malt? Will generic old LHBS chinese container liquid light malt extract be too dark for this one? Hopefull not, as they don't stock the brand name unhopped malt extract cans which come in a much greater range (Extra pale, pale, light, etc). I could also switch to LDME, but would face a similar problem I guess..

Am a bit late on this thread but will add an extra vote of confidence it an old dead fridge.

I have brewed 2 lagers recently thru the burst of heat we had here (36) and with the aid of just 2 x 2L juice bottles 3/4 full of water then frozen, swapped each morning, i have kept the temp down to 8-10C easily (verified with a 500mL conical flask and a mercury thermometer next to the fermenter)

Cant add suggestion re a recipe as i chose not to make a lager until i went AG. All the kit lagers i have tried dont taste clean like urquell/budvar. More like pale ales with lager names...... h34r:

Pic of dead fridge

 

[Fourstar]

Am a bit late on this thread but will add an extra vote of confidence it an old dead fridge.

Nice work DrSmurto! Im thinking of employing a big laundry tub with a water and iodophor solution and the fermenter sitting in it in my fermentation spot under the stairs. I might even cover the fermenter in a 'wet tshirt' and have it wick up the water/iodophor solution. Rotating two 2L juice bottles w/frozen water to keep the temp down. It will work wonderfully or fail miserably with temperatures too low or high.

Time will tell. I might brew something dark to help mask any off falvours if its NQR. Definitely wont be a pils or a helles 1st!

 

[QIK86]

Well, I picked up the old dead fridge last night.

DrSmurto, was that 8-10C in the fridge with 36C ambient?!? Damn, I might have to leave the door open to raise the temp a bit!

Definitely sounds like the answer to my temp control problems anyway!

By the way, DrSmurto, are you not using an airlock in that pic? Do you have the hole blanked off with something or what? I'm trying to work out required shelf heights in my fridge, but the wretched airlock is taking up valuable space..

 

[drsmurto]

You can just see the airlock behind the juice bottle if you look closely. If you dont want to use an airlock just put a piece of cling wrap over the hole and weigh it down with a bottle top. The bricks are to raise the fermenter up enough to be able to clsoe the door as the back of the fridge is angled due to the motor.

Yes, ambient temp outside was 36 for a few days. Felt hotter in the shed where the fridge is. When its not so hot i only change the bottles every 2nd day.

I use the same idea to brew ales in summer as i can use 1 bottle to keep the temp around 18-20C.

Its not ideal but its doing the job until i can get a free live fridge (the scottish blood in me wont let me buy a fridge)

 

[QIK86]

All sorted! Has anyone had issues with a lower fermenter being a few degrees cooler than the top one? (Hot air rises, etc)

 

[Bribie G]

Mighty looking system! Keep us posted as to how it goes.
Did you get the fridge from someone you know or was it from an electrical store? I'm thinking of Trawling around the local Betta Electrical and Retravisions etc as they have a 'we get rid of your dead fridge' policy - save them a trip to the dump.

Cheers

 

[staggalee]

Am a bit late on this thread but will add an extra vote of confidence it an old dead fridge.

I have brewed 2 lagers recently thru the burst of heat we had here (36) and with the aid of just 2 x 2L juice bottles 3/4 full of water then frozen, swapped each morning, i have kept the temp down to 8-10C easily (verified with a 500mL conical flask and a mercury thermometer next to the fermenter)

Cant add suggestion re a recipe as i chose not to make a lager until i went AG. All the kit lagers i have tried dont taste clean like urquell/budvar. More like pale ales with lager names...... h34r:

Pic of dead fridge

I must say you`ve done well if you can pull the temp dowm to 8* in a dead fridge using just 2 frozen bottles with outside temp at 36*.
I use the same method in summer {Brisbane}, have done for years and never looked like getting down that low. What`s with the thermo strip on the fermenter, it doesn`t seem to be showing anything, tho pic. enlarged looks like it could be 28* ? {I realise it wouldn`t be}
Cheers

stagga. :icon_cheers:

 

[Bribie G]

Stagga, I'm in exactly the same position as you, what temps do you achieve? I'm looking at around 20 as I'm not going to do any real lagers till the Winter. Even 16 would be excellent for my 'faux' lagers if that was practicable.

OT: going to the BABBS meeting in a couple of weeks?

 

[staggalee]

Stagga, I'm in exactly the same position as you, what temps do you achieve? I'm looking at around 20 as I'm not going to do any real lagers till the Winter. Even 16 would be excellent for my 'faux' lagers if that was practicable.

OT: going to the BABBS meeting in a couple of weeks?

Temp under pergola where fermenter fridge is 34* now, temp in ferment fridge is 14* now.
That`s with one 4l, one 3l, and one 2l frozen bottles, two outside side walls of fridge insulated and good door seal.
I`ve had it down to 12* in summer, but no lower.
By the by, US-56 still working away at 14*.
:icon_offtopic: no, no BABBS this time anyway.

stagga.

 

[QIK86]

Made the "Aleger" recipe up as planned and all went well, except it took from Friday night until this afternoon to show any signs of krausen forming. SG was still the same as OG last night. Hopefully it's away now. I'm a little worried about the 4 days in between though. Especially as this was my first brew with no airlock.. I only used cling wrap and a bottle cap over the hole. Fingers crossed it's ok.

Oh wait.. forget crossing the fingers.. I've decided I'll just RDWHAHB.

 

[buttersd70]

Oh wait.. forget crossing the fingers.. I've decided I'll just RDWHAHB.

As long as your sanitation was good, thats it.

 

[staggalee]

Especially as this was my first brew with no airlock.. I only used cling wrap and a bottle cap over the hole. Fingers crossed it's ok.

if you used gladwrap, what hole?
or did you pinprick the wrap and put a bottle top over that? :huh:

stagga.

 

[QIK86]

The gladwrap was just over the hole in the lid where the airlock would usually be, with the bottle top over that just to hold it down. Should have explained that a little better.

Sanitation was as good as ever Butters.

I'm hoping to come home to a nice thick krausen reaching for the top of the fermenter.

 

[buttersd70]

Sanitation was as good as ever Butters.

Given that it's you, I figured it would be......you had a good teacher. :lol: