Failed Yeast Cultivation?

[stindall]

Hi All,

I tried to cultivate some White Labs yeast to create a bigger starter and to bottle some for a future brew too but I think I have failed.

Heres what i did:

1. boiled 4 cups water in a pot
2. Added 100g LDME
3. Stirred till it came back to the boil (about 2 mins)
4. Put the lid on the pot and cooled it to room temp
5. Sterilized a 2L bottle
6. Added yeast to bottle
7. Added malt/water to bottle
8. Gave it a gentle swirl/shake to mix
9. Covered it with plastic wrap and put a pin prick in it.

That was about 60 hours ago and there has been almost NO activity. Has grown in volume, no real froth has appeared, nothing. The yeast vial was out of the fridge for about 1 hour before i mixed it.

What do you reckon? Have I somehow killed it? Should i throw it away?

$16 bucks down the drain i guess if there nothing i can do.

Thanks,

TFM

 

[newguy]

Sometimes my starters will also appear "dead" because they won't form a foam layer. I have no idea why - it just happens sometimes. If you tip the bottle slightly, can you see bubbles rising up the side of the bottle? If you can, it's likely just fine. Try decanting some of the liquid and feed the starter again. Also try covering the opening with cling film fixed with a rubber band - don't poke a hole in it. If the cling film bulges outward, CO2 is being produced - a further sign that things are okay.

 

[white.grant]

It's also a big help to agitate the starter as much as you can. Some guys use stir plates to accelerate yeast activity, but spinning the bottle whenever you walk past is a fair substitute.

cheers

grant

 

[Thirsty Boy]

The other thing - and you might have done it but omitted it from your description - is that the yeast will need oxygen. While they will be able to absorb some out of the air in the starter, by not giving them a fair whack of dissolved oxygen at the start, you are making it hard for them to grow as quickly and as healthily as possible. And thats what yeast starters are for - to increase the volume and health of your yeast.

If you do as newguy suggests and decant off as much clear liquid as you can, then feed the starter with fresh wort - this time whn you add the wort to the flask, give it a shake for a minute or so to get some oxygen dissolved into solution.

WARNING - if you actually have already had the yeast working, there will be some CO2 in the solution in your jar - when you shake, whatever liquid was left in there might try to fizz up, could be messy if you aren't ready for it

The other thing to do, is to decant off a hydrometer sample of the liquid - if the gravity is less than it was when you put it in there, then the yeast has been doing something, and its probably going to have been growing.

Thirsty

 

[Screwtop]

I'm guessing your yeast was fresh. You've pitched a good amount into probably a little less than 1 litre of 1.040 wort, I's not going to go into growth phase and produce krausen, it'll be straight into fermentation. Get a torch and have a look through the wall of the vessel, bet you see lots of CO2 activity and maybe even some small globules of yeast rising to the top, disbursing and falling back. Take a gravity reading to prove fermentation.

There's enough cells in a vial to pitch into 19 odd litres of wort less than 1.060 so long as the yeast is fresh and contains a high percentage of viable cells. If the yeast is old and you want to get the remaining good cells multiplying then this would work, however if the yeast is fresh and you want to build up yeast you will have to make a larger starter, large enough for the yeast to start multiplying.

Some water will boil off so allow for this, mix your DME into 1 litre of water and bring to the boil, then reduce to a simmering boil (just boiling) for 10 min, should end up with close to 1L. Aerate or oxygenate the wort prior to pitching, but NEVER once the yeast is in fermentation phase (no krausen) as this results in oxidised wort/starter, which then makes oxidised beer if you pitch it (from experience).

Screwy

 

[///]

I had this happen a few times with Whitelabs.... hence why i started importing Wyeast. There is definitely nothing wrong with WL yeast, but the unreliability of the packaging is the killer. Wyeast has a level of guarantee; if you smack it and it does not swell then you know you have issues. Unfortunately it is not the same with the vials.

Scotty

 

[gap]

Hi All,

I tried to cultivate some White Labs yeast to create a bigger starter and to bottle some for a future brew too but I think I have failed.


That was about 60 hours ago and there has been almost NO activity. Has grown in volume
Thanks,

TFM

Have I read this incorrectly ? "Has grown in volume "

If your yeast has grown in volume you are part way there.

I am sure if in future you use the good advice posted above you will find your yeast will grow much more
and you will have a larger volume to pitch.

Regards

Graeme

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

Heres what i did:


5. Sterilized a 2L bottle
6. Added yeast to bottle
7. Added malt/water to bottle
8. Gave it a gentle swirl/shake to mix
9. Covered it with plastic wrap and put a pin prick in it.


TFM

Mate what did you "sterilize" with? and was it totally removed ?I always put the malt/water mixture in first and that is after I have wash my sterilizer out with boiling water.The sterilizer I use is very strong and I think could kill the yeast if not removed completely.Having said that I would imagine that your starter is working but not showing any obvious sign.
GB

 

[stindall]

Have I read this incorrectly ? "Has grown in volume "

If your yeast has grown in volume you are part way there.

I am sure if in future you use the good advice posted above you will find your yeast will grow much more
and you will have a larger volume to pitch.

Regards

Graeme

Sorry guys. That was a typo. It HAS NOT grown in volume.

I had a closer look and there are tiny tiny tiny, and I mean tiny, bubbles in it so maybe it has done something? Looks sus to me though as I have never seen a fermentation yet (beer or wine) that doesn't have some sign of activity.

I will try the decant suggestion and see what happens.

TFM.

 

[stindall]

Mate what did you "sterilize" with? and was it totally removed ?I always put the malt/water mixture in first and that is after I have wash my sterilizer out with boiling water.The sterilizer I use is very strong and I think could kill the yeast if not removed completely.Having said that I would imagine that your starter is working but not showing any obvious sign.
GB

GB,

I used PSR and rinsed with cold water afterwards.

TFM.

 

[jel]

Aerate or oxygenate the wort prior to pitching, but NEVER once the yeast is in fermentation phase (no krausen) as this results in oxidised wort/starter, which then makes oxidised beer if you pitch it (from experience).

Hi Screwtop,

As someone who is new to the world of yeast cultivation/starters etc, could you please explain this in a bit more detail?

I understand that oxygenating a batch of fermenting beer can lead to oxidised beer, however I had no idea that this had a negative impact on starters, particularly if the starter is left to ferment out, chilled, and then decanted to leave the slurry.

From your experience, does this affect all subsequent beers using this yeast, or just the initial beer? For some reason I was of the understanding that shaking of the starter during yeast growth wasnt a bad thing, and I am currently fermenting a beer re-using the Coopers bottle yeast, which I built up over a week, and I am sure I gave it more than a healthy swirl on many occasions.

Cheers
Jon

 

[Swinging Beef]

what does it taste like?
If it no longer tastes like yeast mixed with malt, then you have had a degree of success.

 

[kabooby]

Yeast will consume oxygen during their cycle, but they can only consume so much. If you over oxygenate or add it after fermentation has started then the yeast may not be able to get rid of it all. If there is still oxygen left in the beer than this can feed Acetic acid bacteria. When Acetic acid bacteria act on alcohol vinegar is produced.

If you have high amounts of acetic acid bacteria in your starter than this will transfer into your beer.

Kabooby

 

[peas_and_corn]

When making a starter I personally put a balloon over the top of the lid, as it inflates as the yeast wakes up, easy to see and monitor. Haven't had any problems so far...

 

[jel]

If you have high amounts of acetic acid bacteria in your starter than this will transfer into your beer.

Thanks for the explanation Kabooby, and I will remember now to not get over-enthusiastic with the swirling of the starters. Hopefully, on this occasion, in wont amount to much, as starter volume compared to the wort was something around the 0.2% mark, and so far it tastes fine.

Cheers
Jon

 

[Glennza]

Hope you don't mind if I tack on to this thread but I have just come home to find my yeast starter playing up and need some urgent advice.

I am about to do a LCPA and am using a Safale 05. Procedure virtually identical to The Fat Monk's (OP). Just opened it for a smell after 24 hours and it really reeks of rotten eggs. Can I assume it's gone off or is that a trait of the Safale 05? I know that some yeast can produce eggy smells that go later.

I have been cultivating and using Wyeast 1968 with no problems and am ultra-careful with sterilising. Have never used 05 and don't know it's foibles.

I don't know whether to bung it or use it. Help!!!

 

[kabooby]

I haven't used 05 for a while. Sulfur (rotten egg) can come from lots of different yeast. Just make sure you leave your beer on the yeast cake for a few days once its finished and it will clean up fine.

Just make sure you taste the starter before you pitch it.

Kabooby