Epic Pale Ale Clone

[dmac80]

No chance of brewing as per the recipe and picking up some more cascade between brewday and the second lot of dry hopping?

 

[Truman42]

@ Muscovy..Thanks anyway mate but were going out all day tomorrow and wont be home until late then Im brewing Sunday morning. Unless you were passing by and could throw them in the mailbox..

@dmac... Not a bad idea but Im not able to get there all next week as Im busy at work. I didn't want to pay postage for just one bag of hops.

 

[Truman42]

I kegged this a couple of days ago and whilst it hasnt carbed up fully yet I tasted a sample and its extremely bitter.

I followed the same general hop schedule as the recipes on this post and use a hop spider which I thought would give me less hop utilization anyway. From what Ive read in this post the IBU's of this beer should be around 40 with the flameout and whirlpool additons but mine seems to be well over this. Its the most bitter beer Ive ever brewed.

Could this improve a bit with age and once its carbed up properly? It certainly doesnt have the malt flavour coming through like the original does because the bitterness has over powered everything.

 

[sponge]

Whilst the aroma and flavour may reduce slightly, the bitterness should also go away with a few weeks in the keg at least.

If you let it sit 'CCing' in the keg fridge for a few weeks, the bitterness will definitely be reduced, although depending upon where its at now, and the residual sweetness, may still be bitter.

Either way, it should get smoother with a few weeks in the fridge.

Report back with how it all goes though buddy

 

[mxd]

Could this improve a bit with age and once its carbed up properly? It certainly doesnt have the malt flavour coming through like the original does because the bitterness has over powered everything.

it should drop a little, do you no chill ?

 

[Truman42]

No I chill.

I added the flameout addition waited 15 mins, added the whirlpool addition and whirlpooled, waited another 20 mins then transferred to the fermenter via the chiller.

 

[QldKev]

No I chill.

I added the flameout addition waited 15 mins, added the whirlpool addition and whirlpooled, waited another 20 mins then transferred to the fermenter via the chiller.

Is there a flameout and also whirlpool addition, I must be looking at a different recipe.


I noticed the recipe a page back adds 19IBU for no chill, I work it out as nearly 30IBU extra; putting it up to almost 50IBU Bitter YES


QldKev

 

[Truman42]

Is there a flameout and also whirlpool addition, I must be looking at a different recipe.


I noticed the recipe a page back adds 19IBU for no chill, I work it out as nearly 30IBU extra; putting it up to almost 50IBU Bitter YES


QldKev

I took my recipe mainly from the How to brew podcast. Here is my hop additions for a 19 litre batch.

Cascade
5.8g 75 mins
11.5g 30 mins
28g 10 mins
35g flameout wait 15 mins
35g at whirlpool for 20 mins

Dry hop day 4 50 grams

Dry hop when cold conditioning 50 gams 7 days

I didnt no chill though Kev I ran it through my chiller. im comparing it to Kooindas black IPA which is 70IBU and it seems a lot more bitter than that. But Im guessing its possibly that the malt isnt balancing the bitterness properly like it should. Its almost undrinkable and I just hope it settles down after a few weeks in the keg.

 

[QldKev]

I took my recipe mainly from the How to brew podcast. Here is my hop additions for a 19 litre batch.

Cascade
5.8g 75 mins
11.5g 30 mins
28g 10 mins
35g flameout wait 15 mins
35g at whirlpool for 20 mins

Dry hop day 4 50 grams

Dry hop when cold conditioning 50 gams 7 days

I didnt no chill though Kev I ran it through my chiller. im comparing it to Kooindas black IPA which is 70IBU and it seems a lot more bitter than that. But Im guessing its possibly that the malt isnt balancing the bitterness properly like it should. Its almost undrinkable and I just hope it settles down after a few weeks in the keg.

Looks the same as the one on the prior page, he just had one addition at flameout for flameout+whirlpool, and added both together.

Have you measured the temps just before you whirlpool or just before you chill?

Say up to 15mins after flame out I'm guessing the temp is still up there to convert hops for bittering, ie >80c. Add 15mins to your flameout+whilpool additions you get an extra 29 IBU.


QldKev

 

[Malted]

Looks the same as the one on the prior page, he just had one addition at flameout for flameout+whirlpool, and added both together.

Have you measured the temps just before you whirlpool or just before you chill?

Say up to 15mins after flame out I'm guessing the temp is still up there to convert hops for bittering, ie >80c. Add 15mins to your flameout+whilpool additions you get an extra 29 IBU.


QldKev

Kev, from what I have been able to determine, generally speaking with a 10oC drop in temp below 100oC, isomerisation drops by half and with another 10oC drop it halves again. So at 80oC one could expect 25% of the isomerisation of that one would expect at 100oC. So in practice once my heat source is off, the wort rapidly reaches 96oC without me doing anything. I start the whirlpooling with my mash paddle and it will drop to 90oC with a good whirlpooling. I then throw my whirlpool hops in and can expect that it will drop into the 80's in the 15 minutes or so that it sits. All good, well maybe not.

What about HSA? I have no answer for this but I am thinking that an immersion chiller combined with a pumped wort return with tangential kettle fitting for whirlpooling might reduce both HSA potential and isomerisation of whirlpool hops? HSA and isomerisation thoughts?

 

[jacknohe]

Is there a flameout and also whirlpool addition, I must be looking at a different recipe.


I noticed the recipe a page back adds 19IBU for no chill, I work it out as nearly 30IBU extra; putting it up to almost 50IBU Bitter YES


QldKev

Yeah that was my bad. A typo. I had +26 IBU at the top of the recipe. But it's probably 29-30. So all up 42-45 IBU. I cube hopped that full amount of 100g Cascade. I still think that brew came out as one of the best ever.

 

[QldKev]

Kev, from what I have been able to determine, generally speaking with a 10oC drop in temp below 100oC, isomerisation drops by half and with another 10oC drop it halves again. So at 80oC one could expect 25% of the isomerisation of that one would expect at 100oC. So in practice once my heat source is off, the wort rapidly reaches 96oC without me doing anything. I start the whirlpooling with my mash paddle and it will drop to 90oC with a good whirlpooling. I then throw my whirlpool hops in and can expect that it will drop into the 80's in the 15 minutes or so that it sits. All good, well maybe not.

What about HSA? I have no answer for this but I am thinking that an immersion chiller combined with a pumped wort return with tangential kettle fitting for whirlpooling might reduce both HSA potential and isomerisation of whirlpool hops? HSA and isomerisation thoughts?

From memory, the testing I've read concluded 90c = 45%, and 80c = 20% so agree with your numbers. Possibly we should apply an averaged 50% rule of the IBU, so maybe +15IBU? Which probably puts it back closer what I would think a good target IBU for the style.

It doesn't help Truman why his beer ended up too bitter.
@Truman, what AA% are your hops?



QldKev

 

[Truman42]

From memory, the testing I've read concluded 90c = 45%, and 80c = 20% so agree with your numbers. Possibly we should apply an averaged 50% rule of the IBU, so maybe +15IBU? Which probably puts it back closer what I would think a good target IBU for the style.

It doesn't help Truman why his beer ended up too bitter.
@Truman, what AA% are your hops?



QldKev

From memory as Im at work I think they were 6.5%. I know they were lower than the 7.?% listed in the recipes.

 

[QldKev]

Yeah that was my bad. A typo. I had +26 IBU at the top of the recipe. But it's probably 29-30. So all up 42-45 IBU. I cube hopped that full amount of 100g Cascade. I still think that brew came out as one of the best ever.

Cool, that explains it.

It's got me motivated to do an Epic Pale Ale next brew. I'll be saying goodbye to about 800g Cascade for the batch, making it my biggest hop bill yet (3 cubes). Time to go play and work out some salt additions ready for it. It may be a couple of weeks before I get a chance to brew it though. I will be slow-chilling it, so will be cube hopping the 100g lots of additions too. But I may change the hops additions so the 30min is @ 15min, and the 10min addition 1/2 @ 0min and 1/2 @ whirlpool. Should be a tasty beer.


QldKev

 

[jacknohe]

I'll be saying goodbye to about 800g Cascade for the batch, making it my biggest hop bill yet (3 cubes).

Worth every cent!!!

 

[QldKev]

Cool, that explains it.

It's got me motivated to do an Epic Pale Ale next brew. I'll be saying goodbye to about 800g Cascade for the batch, making it my biggest hop bill yet (3 cubes). Time to go play and work out some salt additions ready for it. It may be a couple of weeks before I get a chance to brew it though. I will be slow-chilling it, so will be cube hopping the 100g lots of additions too. But I may change the hops additions so the 30min is @ 15min, and the 10min addition 1/2 @ 0min and 1/2 @ whirlpool. Should be a tasty beer.


QldKev

Worth every cent!!!

Poured my first glass of the Epic Pale Ale today. I can't 100% remember the original one I had, only ever have had 1 a couple of years back, for a comparison but pretty happy with this brew.
Hop Aroma overload!!! I ran a 69L batch and I can see where that almost 800g of hops have gone. Upfront a very sweet brew, that increasingly turns to a citrus bitterness. As you think that's becoming very bitter it mellows a bit and then lingers with a heavy oily coating on the back of my mouth. I think I may up the salt levels next time I brew it as I think being such a full on brew could handle it. I will be brewing it again!

QldKev

 

[jacknohe]

Great to hear!!!

 

[Adam Howard]

Definitely a beer to brew after a hop buy off Nikobrew!

 

[QldKev]

I've already got an order in to yakimavalleyhops for some 2012 cascade to run a batch of this., even thinking at of placing a second one.

I tried a real Epic Pale Ale whilst passing through Brisbane last time (thanks to the people who mentioned to get it from the Era). I was surprised how well mine compares, and wont be changing the recipe for the next brew.

QldKev