Epic Pale Ale Clone

[dabre4]

I've done a search on this and came up with nothing. Who out there has tried Epic Pale Ale? Amazing beer with a crazy amount of hops in it, and I want to try and make a version of my own. The claim is that they use 15.4 hop flowers per bottle or 3000 percent more than the average beer! WTF! It just sounds ridiculous, but if you tasted the beer, you might think twice. If anyone knows how much one hop flower weighs, we would have a good start. Even better they give some good info on the web:

INGREDIENTS
Malt - English Pale Ale, Crystal
Hops - US Cascade

Alc/Vol - 5.4%
IBU - 45
Style - American-Style Pale Ale

330ml bottle - 1.4 standard drinks
500ml bottle - 2.1 standard drinks

FLAVOURS & AROMAS
Lychee
Grapefruit Peel
Apricot

Who actually specifies the IBU on their web page! Anyway I'm not going to complain! The malt base seems pretty basic, this beer is all about the hops anyway, which is all one variety, US Cascade.

So I've had a crack at a recipe and would love some feedback. I look at this recipe and think, thats a shit load of hops, but its still nowhere near 3000 percent more than normal! I know I've gone away from the "simple" malt base, but I think it could help balance out all that hops! Someone else might have a better idea?

Epic Pale Ale Clone
10-A American Pale Ale
Author: DB
Size: 24 L
Efficiency: 75.0%
Attenuation: 75.0%
Calories: 183.01 kcal per 12.0 fl oz
Original Gravity: 1.055 (1.045 - 1.060)
Terminal Gravity: 1.014 (1.010 - 1.015)
Color: 11.49 (5.0 - 14.0)
Alcohol: 5.41% (4.5% - 6.2%)
Bitterness: 44.8 (30.0 - 45.0)

Ingredients:
4.7 kg JW Traditional Ale Malt
0.8 kg JW Wheat Malt
0.3 kg Crystal Malt
0.2 kg Caramunich TYPE I
27 g Cascade (5.5%) - added during boil, boiled 60 min
35 g Cascade (5.5%) - added during boil, boiled 40 min
30 g Cascade (5.5%) - added during boil, boiled 20 min
30 g Cascade (5.5%) - added during boil, boiled 5 min
40 g Cascade (5.5%) - added during boil, boiled 0 min
20 g Cascade (Dry hop in secondary) (5.5%) - added during boil, boiled 0 min
1.0 ea WYeast 1272 American Ale II

Schedule:
Single infusion mash at 68C

Results generated by BeerTools Pro 1.5.7


Cheers

 

[manticle]

Can't help you with exact info as I've never tried the beer. I would hazard a guess however that they deliver a kind of layered hoppiness by adding hops late and very frequently to the kettle. Look at small hop additions beyond 30 or even 20 minutes. Try a small addition every 3 minutes instead of one big addition every 10 or 20.

My guess is based on your description and my limited exerience of the lovely layered fruitiness a hopbust can bring to a beer without just tasting like 'I threw in a bucket of hops at 10 minutes' so I apologise if I'm on the mark. Worthwhile technique anyway.

 

[Stove]

Can't help with the recipe- whether it looks right or not I'd have no clue.
I do know what Epic tastes like though- and I'd only be too happy to critique it once you have it brewed :chug:

Used to make a habit of having an Epic every time I went to the Cock and Bull in the Tron (NZ).

They did lovely beers

 

[dabre4]

Thanks for the advice.

How about this?

Epic Pale Ale Clone
10-A American Pale Ale
Author: DB

Size: 24 L
Efficiency: 75.0%
Attenuation: 75.0%
Calories: 183.01 kcal per 12.0 fl oz

Original Gravity: 1.055 (1.045 - 1.060)
Terminal Gravity: 1.014 (1.010 - 1.015)
Color: 11.49 (5.0 - 14.0)
Alcohol: 5.41% (4.5% - 6.2%)
Bitterness: 44.9 (30.0 - 45.0)

Ingredients:
4.7 kg JW Traditional Ale Malt
0.8 kg JW Wheat Malt
0.3 kg Crystal Malt
0.2 kg Caramunich TYPE I
30 g Cascade (5.5%) - added during boil, boiled 60 min
18 g Cascade (5.5%) - added during boil, boiled 20 min
18 g Cascade (5.5%) - added during boil, boiled 17 min
20 g Cascade (5.5%) - added during boil, boiled 14 min
20 g Cascade (5.5%) - added during boil, boiled 11 min
22 g Cascade (5.5%) - added during boil, boiled 8 min
22 g Cascade (5.5%) - added during boil, boiled 5 min
20 g Cascade (Dry hop in secondary) (5.5%) - added during boil, boiled 0 min
0.0 ea WYeast 1272 American Ale II


Results generated by BeerTools Pro 1.5.7

 

[dabre4]

Also if you haven't tryed it.......do!

 

[Jimmeh]

Doesn't the website say it uses "English Pale Ale, Crystal"?

This would be a good starting point:

95% Marris Otter or Golden Promise (these are english pale ale malts)
5% Crystal


Cheers, Jim

 

[jakub76]

Doesn't the website say it uses "English Pale Ale, Crystal"?

This would be a good starting point:

95% Marris Otter or Golden Promise (these are english pale ale malts)
5% Crystal


Cheers, Jim

I'd also use Maris Otter. At least to try to balance all of that bitterness with some more malt. I'd probably be tempted to start with only about 1/3 of the IBU's at the 60 minute addition and ramp up the amount of hops in additions at 30, 20, 10, 2 and dry
20g @ 60min 15 IBU
25g @ 30min 10 IBU
30g @ 20min 7 IBU
35g @ 10min 6 IBU
40g @ 2min 5 IBU
That's 43IBU (Rager) for 22Litres

 

[dabre4]

I'd also use Maris Otter. At least to try to balance all of that bitterness with some more malt. I'd probably be tempted to start with only about 1/3 of the IBU's at the 60 minute addition and ramp up the amount of hops in additions at 30, 20, 10, 2 and dry
20g @ 60min 15 IBU
25g @ 30min 10 IBU
30g @ 20min 7 IBU
35g @ 10min 6 IBU
40g @ 2min 5 IBU
That's 43IBU (Rager) for 22Litres

Ok. Sounds good. I'll adjust the recipe to include Maris Otter and Crystal. My problem is this is sounding more like an English Ale, I want it to be more along the lines of an American Pale Ale, hence why I used a different Malt base. Any suggestions on an alternative Malt base to just Maris Otter and crystal, or do you think that would be sufficent to match the style of beer I'm aiming for? Maybe I could add a touch of wheat.

 

[neonmeate]

you could try golden promise instead if you think maris otter is going to soak up too much hop flavour (which it does)

 

[Fourstar]

A way to avoid using Maris Otter but give your malt some 'English' complexity would be to use something like biscuit, aromatic or imperial malt along with plain old ale malt. something like the following would suffice as a clone substitute.

90% JW Ale
5% Simpsons Aromatic/Dingemans Biscuit
5% JW Crystal

I find these highly kilned malts work really well with JW ale/pilsner as an English malt substitute over using maris otter, golden promise etc. It also adds a nice touch to the beer over using Munich or Vienna as a malt 'booster' too. Something different from what the crowd usually does.

As for the hopping, 23 hop cones roughly equates to 3-4g of hops per bottle (500ml). I recently harvested 200 odd cones and they dried out to 30g, thats where i get my numbers from.

So for a whole batch, 23L * (3.5g*2) = 161g.

As for the hop schedule, i wouldnt go too complex as i'd doubt someone is standing over the kettle for the whole boil dumping in hops every 10 mins.

I'd shoot for something like.

20IBU @ 60 min
10IBU @ 40-30 min
15IBU @ 10-5 min
2g/L @ flameout


Cheers. :icon_cheers:

 

[BrenosBrews]

you could try golden promise instead if you think maris otter is going to soak up too much hop flavour (which it does)

Golden Promise is actually the base English malt used in the Epic Pale so that would be my pick too.

 

[Fourstar]

Golden Promise is actually the base English malt used in the Epic Pale so that would be my pick too.

how do you know this?

 

[sumo]

Something like this....

Hat tip to Joking on RealBeer.co.nz for the Epic clone recipe

Epic Clone
10-A American Pale Ale

Boil Size 27 L
Size: 22.75 L
Efficiency: 80%
Attenuation: 77.0%
Calories: 178.09 kcal per 12 fl oz

Original Gravity: 1.054 (1.045 - 1.060)
Terminal Gravity: 1.012 (1.010 - 1.015)
Color: 22.15 (5.00 - 14.00)
Alcohol: 5.42% (4.50% - 6.00%)
Bitterness: 45.9 (30.00 - 45.00)

Ingredients:
4.7 kg Golden Promise Pale
.41 kg British Crystal 90 EBC
50 g Cascade (5.8%) - added during boil, boiled 60.0 min
50 g Cascade (5.8%) - added during boil, boiled 10.0 min
50 g Cascade (5.8%) - added during boil, boiled 1.0 min
100 g Cascade (5.8%) - added dry to secondary fermenter
1 Wyeast 1272

Schedule:
Ambient Air: 21.11 C
Source Water: 15.56 C
Elevation: 0.0 m

00:03:00 Mash In - Liquor: 12.78 L; Strike: 74.53 C; Target: 67 C
01:03:00 Saccrification - Rest: 60 min; Final: 65.0 C
01:04:00 Mash Out - Water: 3.71 L; Temperature: 100.0 C; Target: 72.0 C
02:04:00 Sparge - Sparge Volume: 21.32 L; Sparge Temperature: 75.6 C; Runoff: 21.35 L

Note this has been seen as a little more bitter than the real thing.

And by the way Epic does use Golden Promise, heard from the brewers mouth at a tasting earlier this year.

 

[dabre4]

Thanks Fourstar! Thats great. Seems like we are not to far off the mark in terms of the amount of hops. I can't see that as 3000% more than normal, my maths might be wrong but wouldn't that mean a normal 23L batch would have around 5-6g of hops!

 

[dabre4]

Something like this....

Hat tip to Joking on RealBeer.co.nz for the Epic clone recipe

Epic Clone
10-A American Pale Ale

Boil Size 27 L
Size: 22.75 L
Efficiency: 80%
Attenuation: 77.0%


Calories: 178.09 kcal per 12 fl oz

Original Gravity: 1.054 (1.045 - 1.060)
Terminal Gravity: 1.012 (1.010 - 1.015)
Color: 22.15 (5.00 - 14.00)
Alcohol: 5.42% (4.50% - 6.00%)
Bitterness: 45.9 (30.00 - 45.00)

Ingredients:
4.7 kg Golden Promise Pale
.41 kg British Crystal 90 EBC
50 g Cascade (5.8%) - added during boil, boiled 60.0 min
50 g Cascade (5.8%) - added during boil, boiled 10.0 min
50 g Cascade (5.8%) - added during boil, boiled 1.0 min
100 g Cascade (5.8%) - added dry to secondary fermenter
1 Wyeast 1272

Schedule:
Ambient Air: 21.11 C
Source Water: 15.56 C
Elevation: 0.0 m

00:03:00 Mash In - Liquor: 12.78 L; Strike: 74.53 C; Target: 67 C
01:03:00 Saccrification - Rest: 60 min; Final: 65.0 C
01:04:00 Mash Out - Water: 3.71 L; Temperature: 100.0 C; Target: 72.0 C
02:04:00 Sparge - Sparge Volume: 21.32 L; Sparge Temperature: 75.6 C; Runoff: 21.35 L

Note this has been seen as a little more bitter than the real thing.

And by the way Epic does use Golden Promise, heard from the brewers mouth at a tasting earlier this year.

Fantastic work Sumo, that looks pretty damb good! Thats a shit load of hops! Yum yum.

 

[BrenosBrews]

how do you know this?

Because Luke Nicholas told me and numerous other people.

 

[Fourstar]

And by the way Epic does use Golden Promise, heard from the brewers mouth at a tasting earlier this year.

Because Luke Nicholas told me and numerous other people.

Sweeto burrito! :icon_cheers:

 

[sinkas]

Are you sure its all cascade? I have only had it a few times, but seemd more complex than a cascade only beer to me

 

[neonmeate]

ooh ive saved that one for future brewing. thanks sumo!

 

[Fourstar]

Are you sure its all cascade? I have only had it a few times, but seemd more complex than a cascade only beer to me

Acording to their website.. Nothing but cascade.