English Strong Ale - Yeast?

[Guysmiley54]

Hi,

I'm about to brew the Classic Styles recipe "Old Treacle Mine" and the recipe calls for 1028 London ale or Nottingham. My LHBS doesn't stock either and I don't particularly want to wait to get them from Craftbrewer as I'm keen to fill my fermenter ASAP

This recipe is 9% abv with a strong malt focus. My LHBS stocks s04 and s05, do you guys think these would be ok to use? I don't know if this style requires the character from the yeast or whether a clean yeast would do the job fine.

I recently used S04 for the first time for a northern brown recipe and while only still 3 weeks in the bottle I'm finding the beer a little acidic.... This may be the grain bill but I'm not sure that I like the yeast 100%. My brown is super terrific but I'm detecting something in there that is not sitting as well as I would have hoped. So at this stage I am leaning towards using US05... any thoughts?

Oh, and I have 1469 sitting in my fridge too but I don't think this would probably be suitable. I imagine you would need a massive blowoff for such a high gravity beer with this yeast!!

Cheers

 

[hillbillybreweries]

Us05 is going to be fairly neutral and 1028 will compliment the the mineral content in the beer. Depending on the balance of the recipe you may not want a yeast that highlights the malt character if you are using lots of specialty malts.
LHBS that don't stock all the basic yeasts can be a pain.
If you can't use a liquid yeast don't see a problem with using US05 in an English beer , plenty of brewers do. 1028 attenuates well as does US05.

Are you sure that the S04 is causing the acidic character you are tasting in your other beer?

 

[Bizier]

I would go with either US05 (safety yeast) or the 1469, preferably the latter if you want an actual English ester profile. I am resolved within myself that S04 has no redeeming (nor English) qualities.

If in doubt or in a pinch, US05 saves your bacon time and time again.

 

[manticle]

I find good English beers shine if you use a good UK strain, so I would be inclined to either make a big starter with the 1469 and ferment cool, no chill and wait till you get the right yeast or brew something else as a filler (9% will probably need some aging anyway).

US05 will give you a clean beer but some English esters make sense in this kind of brew.

 

[Guysmiley54]

Are you sure that the S04 is causing the acidic character you are tasting in your other beer?

Nope, not sure really. The malt bill for this one was quite complex and used many grains I hadn't used before. It is actually mellowing nicely and tasting a little sweeter with caramel notes coming out now. I have heard some don't like S04 and this is the first time I have used it.

 

[Guysmiley54]

I find good English beers shine if you use a good UK strain, so I would be inclined to either make a big starter with the 1469 and ferment cool, no chill and wait till you get the right yeast or brew something else as a filler (9% will probably need some aging anyway).

US05 will give you a clean beer but some English esters make sense in this kind of brew.

I think I will give the 1469 a go. I have a few tubes in the fridge and would like to have at them before they get much older anyway. What size starter would you recommend?

Thanks all for your feedback

 

[manticle]

Use Mr malty to work out the starter size accurately but if it were me, I'd be looking at stepping up to a 3-4 L active starter.

First step depends on how much you have.

 

[Guysmiley54]

Use Mr malty to work out the starter size accurately but if it were me, I'd be looking at stepping up to a 3-4 L active starter.

First step depends on how much you have.

Will do.

I have about 15ml samples that are about 6 months old. What size would you start at? I also usually use 2L softdrink bottles for starters, would a 4L work if I did a 2L fermented out, decanted and topped up with another 2L? Mind you it would be quicker to use 2 x 2L I think...

 

[manticle]

How I would do it:

15ml in about 150 to 200 mL wort. Ferment out.

From there to 1 L. Ferment out.

Then 1 L to 4L, wait till krausen appears, then pitch the lot. I treat my starters gently though - no shaking once it shows signs of ferment, fermentation temperatures. If you use a stir plate, it will be quicker but ferment out and decant and pitch only the yeast. Don't pitch wort that has had the crap shaken out of it after it's started fermenting or that has been fermented at high temps to speed it up.

However my way (which from experience works absolutely fine) may not be the best, recommended or most scientific way so inform yourself of all recommended options before taking my advice.

 

[[email protected]]

I'm going to throw a spanner in the works.

I have done this same recipe and it is now 2 months old bottle conditioned with the S-04 yeast (2 packs). I find Notty attenuates too much so went for the S-04. Attenuation was on spec. As this type of beer is meant to be aged for 12 months or more that I think the yeast character is not so critical as the aged oxidation character becomes a signifcant contribution I.e. sherry notes. I'm hoping for an Olde Suffork character.

I have cracked a couple to check carbonation and the beer tastes good and will develop well.

Having said this 1469 will still produce a good beer.

 

[Guysmiley54]

I'm going to throw a spanner in the works.

I have done this same recipe and it is now 2 months old bottle conditioned with the S-04 yeast (2 packs). I find Notty attenuates too much so went for the S-04. Attenuation was on spec. As this type of beer is meant to be aged for 12 months or more that I think the yeast character is not so critical as the aged oxidation character becomes a signifcant contribution I.e. sherry notes. I'm hoping for an Olde Suffork character.

I have cracked a couple to check carbonation and the beer tastes good and will develop well.

Having said this 1469 will still produce a good beer.

Hmmm.... OK, S-04 would require the least amount of effort and be a pretty quick affair too not needing to delay while building a starter.

I plan to drink some now (well, soonish) and save some for aging to explore the style a bit.

Will think about my options and sleep on it I think B)

 

[Bizier]

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
oooooooooo

 

[flano]

I just made a pale ale and had a pack s-04 yeast sitting around.
I used it...have no idea what it will taste like or what it is used in .

too be honest it smells great while fermenting.

 

[Guysmiley54]

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
oooooooooo

:lol:

Really? That bad huh?

Doesn't Ross do a combo of S-04 and S-05 as an english hybrid at Craftbrewer?

I'm not sure I'll get to it in the next day or so anyway... Maybe I should just put in an order for London Ale yeast!

 

[Bizier]

I bought a bunch of S04 a while back and ended up using it up by blending with either US05 or 34/70, and with another strain to clean up after it, it is fine. I just personally don't find it to have any redeeming qualities when it ferments clean, and if it is feeling tempramental then it can throw some diacetyl.

It is not that bad. I just don't think it is that good either, especially when you have another good yeast on hand.

 

[flano]

I tried a hyrdo sample of the beer I made using this s-04 yeast.

If it is meant to taste like shyte....then I have absolutely nailed it.

admittedly it is only 4 days old in the fermenter....I might bottle this batch and shelve it for a few months instead of wasting it in a keg.

I think it might be off or something ..the actual beer and krausen look fine...no mould or anything.
Brand new fermenter cleaned and sterilized.

It is only about 4% but tastes like rocket fuel.

 

[flano]

update on shyte tasting beer with S04 yeast

don't what has happened but it has come good.
I took another sample and it is actually pretty good now.