Electric Kettle

[pb unleaded]

Hi all.

I have this urn which I would like to use as a kettle to boil wort in. I read somewhere that it's not a good idea because the element will scorch wort.
Is this true? Anyone else used one of these as a kettle?

arthur

 

[vlbaby]

arthur,
It shouldnt be a huge problem as long as you disable the thermostat. If you dont disable the thermostat, it will never reach boiling point.

As far as the scotching of wort is concered, I believe that you will find some of the wort will stick to the element, and this will require a scrub every now and then. However, this certainly wont damage your beer in any way.

They only problem i would forsee is the small size . You might have to keep your batch sizes right down.


cheers

vl.

 

[Millet Man]

It shouldnt be a huge problem as long as you disable the thermostat. If you dont disable the thermostat, it will never reach boiling point.

As far as the scotching of wort is concered, I believe that you will find some of the wort will stick to the element, and this will require a scrub every now and then. However, this certainly wont damage your beer in any way.

They only problem i would forsee is the small size . You might have to keep your batch sizes right down.

[post="129035"][/post]​

Arthur,

I have two of these (20 lt?) and they work fine for boiling wort, I use one when I'm doing experimental 15 lt batches. If you're an extract brewer it would be fine for full size batches.

The elements in mine are stainless in one and copper in the other, the copper one gets a bit discoloured after a while so I buy some cheap vinegar and boil it in the kettle and cleans it up really shiny.

Don't disable the thermostat it won't cut out. The dial goes up to 110 and on that setting it will hold a boil as long as it has liquid in it. AFAIK the thermostat also controls the boil dry cut out (depending on the model) so you want it operational.

Cheers, Andrew.

 

[T.D.]

I used an immersion element to boil my wort for a long time - the results were great. I have heard of people using urns as boilers too. As vlbaby mentioned, the element will get a build up of crud on it that can be a pain to clean off.

What are you using for an HLT? I personally think these urns are better as an hlt than a boiler - that way you can put the thermostat to its intended use. By the way, you should be able to set the thermostat above boiling point it shouldn't get in the way too much if you want to use it for boiling.

 

[Millet Man]

One other thing, depending on how you chill the wort you may need to replace the tap. When I used an immersion chiller the existing tap was fine, just open it up and let the cold wort splash into the fermenter. When I switched to a CFC I replaced the tap to one with a barbed fitting so I could drain directly through tubing.

Cheers, Andrew.

 

[pbrosnan]

HI there,

I've been using a 30L urn as a kettle for ages and never had a problem, it takes a while to get to a boil but once it does there's no problem with the thermo. With regard to the element I can confirm what the others say, I clean the element with a mildly acidic solution after each brew otherwise it will build up and then you may have problems with the themo shutting the urn down. I also use a 20L as the HLT.
As far as I can make out the story about the wort "sticking" or "burning" on the element is an old wives tale, I've never had it happen and don't see how it could.

cheers

Patrick.

 

[pb unleaded]

vlbaby Posted Today, 06:39 AM

They only problem i would forsee is the small size . You might have to keep your batch sizes right down.

This is a 40 lt job. I was planning to do bigger batches.

T.D. Posted Today, 07:10 AM


What are you using for an HLT? I personally think these urns are better as an hlt than a boiler - that way you can put the thermostat to its intended use.

I will also use the urn as a HLT by transfering wort back and fro. I want to use this vessel as a fermenter too.
Thank you all for your replies.

arthur

 

[T.D.]

Geez, that's what I call multi-tasking! I don't know if I'd be using it as a fermenter though... just buy a 30L plastic carboy for $30 - will save you heaps of heart-ache.

 

[KoNG]

you may aswell mash in it to arthur... it would be the ultimate compact AG setup (especially if you then use it for a serving vessel after fermentation)
Keep me informed on how it all comes together, sounds interesting.

 

[ausdb]

you may aswell mash in it to arthur... it would be the ultimate compact AG setup (especially if you then use it for a serving vessel after fermentation)
Keep me informed on how it all comes together, sounds interesting.

[post="129100"][/post]​

I have a 20L urn and use it as a HLT and sometimes as a boiler for making a batch with the second runnings of the mash and some extract, it works well except that sometimes 2400W is too much to maintain a rolling boil. The urn I have just has a bimetallic thermostat. If you adjust the stat so it clicks in and out every so often then it tends to give a "no boil' 'overboil' effect. Some sort of power output control that regulates the amount of power to the element in a proportional manner rather than just on/off would be better. Our friends who practice the art of making distilled water and essential oils with electric boilers discuss the power input issue a lot.

But saying that 2400W into a 40L urn is probably a better proposition and its irrelevant to the orginal posters suggestion

As for mashing I think the 2400W straight into the mash would be a recipe for scorching but as a sucker for punishment I may give it a go sometime.

 

[vlbaby]

This is a 40 lt job. I was planning to do bigger batches.

[post="129057"][/post]​

ok 40L is not too bad. I just assumed it was a 20L looking at the picture.
It should be just fine.


vl.

 

[pb unleaded]

vlbaby Posted May 25 2006, 06:39 AM
arthur,
It shouldnt be a huge problem as long as you disable the thermostat. If you dont disable the thermostat, it will never reach boiling point.

You were right vlbaby.
This is a 3000w element but it just won't boil. I am doing a partial atm and trying to boil about 30lts.
The temp is set up to the max (110 degrees) and the thermostat is still cutting off. The wort boils for
a minutte or so and 'rests' for 5.
I turned it off after 90 minuttes of 'no boil'.

However, when I tested it with water it was boiling fine.

Now I want to disable the themostat but don't know how. Any help would be appreciated.


arthur

 

[pbrosnan]

Hi Arthur,

Check that the element is clean, I had a problem with the urn cutting out and it was down to the element being coated with gunk and geting to hot. Other than that I've never had a problem with an urn giving a solid rolling boil.

 

[Velophile]

You were right vlbaby.
This is a 3000w element but it just won't boil. I am doing a partial atm and trying to boil about 30lts.
The temp is set up to the max (110 degrees) and the thermostat is still cutting off. The wort boils for
a minutte or so and 'rests' for 5.
I turned it off after 90 minuttes of 'no boil'.

However, when I tested it with water it was boiling fine.

Now I want to disable the themostat but don't know how. Any help would be appreciated.


arthur

arthur

A switch could be installed to disable the thermostat. You could then use the urn either way.

Where about in Melb town are you? Someone handy could help you out if they live close by. B)

 

[lou]

I had the same problem
if you think about it the wort is probably getting hotter than water boiling point becasue it is much denser that water with all those sugars - ever made toffee? Also becasue you get a coating on the elemets really quickly it insulates and the element gets hotter than it normally would - it doesn't stuff up the element at these temps but its a fail safe device.

anyway the elements often have an internal themostat to make them cut out if you forget ot put any water in the boiler. the elements are getting hotter than they think they should and automatticaly cut out. You may need to disable the internal thermostat of the element - depends on what sort of element you have

lou

 

[pb unleaded]

Thanks Lou.
I have installed a switch to disable the thermostat. When the switch is "off", the urn runs as normal:
when the switch is "on" the power is permanently supplied to the element overiding the thermostat.
The element is 3000 watts and the switch I put in is 3 amps. I was not sure how many amps I needed
but the test with water worked fine.
Here are some pics.

Thanks

arthur

 

[lou]

hate to warn you but a test with water isn't going to tell you whether it works with wort -

just a warning - hope it works

i had a big hot kettle of wort that wouldn't boil and had to do some very quick and savage 'adjustments' to rip out the internal thermostat.

lou

 

[JasonY]

the switch I put in is 3 amps. I was not sure how many amps I needed
but the test with water worked fine.

Wouldn't bank on that switch lasting long! 3000W is about 12.5A so I would be installing a 15A switch. I hope that urn is earthed and you have a RCD on the circuit you are using.

 

[wessmith]

Have to echo JasonY's remarks. Please make sure the urn is electrically correct in its wiring. More importantly, please understand that water heating elements have a much higher wattage density than is suitable for boiling wort. Simply put, the element surface will get much hotter with a water boiling element, and you need to have a much lower and larger surface temp and area for wort.

Keep the urn for an HLT but not your kettle.

Wes

 

[dicko]

Hi guys,
I read a lot of topics regarding the problems of electric elements with the boil kettle.
I know that "each to their own" but;
I don't understand why you don't just use LPG and a suitable burner for the boil.
I've listened to the arguments of safety, I've listened to the arguments of cost, but IMHO gas burners come out well above the element (electric ) when it comes to safety and performance.
I will conceed that electric element HLT's do work and so does a herms coil in a container with an electric element but if you want a real boil for 60 to 90 minutes then go gas, or go 15 or 20 amp systems which aren't an available option in the HB situation.
A real boil will result in a clearer beer.
A real boil will result in correct hop utilization.
A real boil will result in a shorter brew day.
In real terms, a three ring burner with a suitable regulator will offer no more danger than your average BBQ on a Sunday arvo and it will provide a boil that will satisfy the three sentences above, so just rethink the desired outcome before you spen a shi* load of money on a system that may not be suitable.
Cheers and may your boil be productive!!