Electric Kettle

[NRB]

Hear hear!

 

[vlbaby]

Hi guys,
I read a lot of topics regarding the problems of electric elements with the boil kettle.
I know that "each to their own" but;
I don't understand why you don't just use LPG and a suitable burner for the boil.
I've listened to the arguments of safety, I've listened to the arguments of cost, but IMHO gas burners come out well above the element (electric ) when it comes to safety and performance.
I will conceed that electric element HLT's do work and so does a herms coil in a container with an electric element but if you want a real boil for 60 to 90 minutes then go gas, or go 15 or 20 amp systems which aren't an available option in the HB situation.
A real boil will result in a clearer beer.
A real boil will result in correct hop utilization.
A real boil will result in a shorter brew day.
In real terms, a three ring burner with a suitable regulator will offer no more danger than your average BBQ on a Sunday arvo and it will provide a boil that will satisfy the three sentences above, so just rethink the desired outcome before you spen a shi* load of money on a system that may not be suitable.
Cheers and may your boil be productive!!

Dicko has got a good point arthur. Not that your urn can't be used for what you want, but I guess you could say its not the best tool for the job.

An electric element is great for temperature regulating devices such as a HLT or HERMS, where the on-off action is very easy to control. In fact, I personally think in these applications it is superioir. But in a kettle, you really dont want an 'on and off' control, you want a good steady boil. However, to achieve that with an electric element means a complicated proportional control system must be employed.

I think for the ease and simplicity, the old three ring burner etc, wins hands down!


vl.

 

[bindi]

An electric element is great for temperature regulating devices such as a HLT or HERMS, where the on-off action is very easy to control. In fact, I personally think in these applications it is superioir.

I think for the ease and simplicity, the old three ring burner etc, wins hands down!


vl.
[/quote]

I have gone back to gas for heating my HLT <_<

 

[lou]

Oh no !!

here comes the debate on what you need to be real brewer again h34r:

I have an electric boiler with two kettle elements and it works a treat with 1 or 2 elements on although the evap is a bit high with both on for the full duration - I was worried I would have all sorts of worries with temp control but works fine as is nice and simple

real brewers use electricity exclusively

lou

 

[Millet Man]

if you think about it the wort is probably getting hotter than water boiling point becasue it is much denser that water with all those sugars - ever made toffee? Also becasue you get a coating on the elemets really quickly it insulates and the element gets hotter than it normally would - it doesn't stuff up the element at these temps but its a fail safe device.

Well, I have happily boiled 1.100+ SG wort in my 20 lt (2400W) Birko boiler without any problems so maybe it is just the brand of urn and at what temp the cut-out kicks in. :unsure:

Cheers, Andrew.

 

[vlbaby]

An electric element is great for temperature regulating devices such as a HLT or HERMS, where the on-off action is very easy to control. In fact, I personally think in these applications it is superioir.

I think for the ease and simplicity, the old three ring burner etc, wins hands down!


vl.

I have gone back to gas for heating my HLT <_<
[/quote]

Just my opinion on electric heated HLT's. It can be started by a timer, be automatically regulated, and doesnt run out of gas, and runs on the family budget.

cheers

vl.

 

[dicko]

Oh no !!

here comes the debate on what you need to be real brewer again h34r:

I have an electric boiler with two kettle elements and it works a treat with 1 or 2 elements on although the evap is a bit high with both on for the full duration - I was worried I would have all sorts of worries with temp control but works fine as is nice and simple

real brewers use electricity exclusively

lou

Hi Lou and all the other electric boilers on AHB,
I did don my flame suit when I posted the above as I anticipated a similar reply but I did post with no animosity to the people who are using 240v to boil their wort. I was only stating my personal observations.

Hi guys,
I read a lot of topics regarding the problems of electric elements with the boil kettle.
I know that "each to their own" but;
I don't understand why you don't just use LPG and a suitable burner for the boil.
I've listened to the arguments of safety, I've listened to the arguments of cost, but IMHO gas burners come out well above the element (electric ) when it comes to safety and performance.
I will conceed that electric element HLT's do work and so does a herms coil in a container with an electric element but if you want a real boil for 60 to 90 minutes then go gas, or go 15 or 20 amp systems which aren't an available option in the HB situation.

Because I don't beieve that electric elements in the HB situation is better than gas, I would like to ask the following,
Can you boil more than 30 litres?
If so, how long does it take?
Can you use the one 10 amp outlet to run the boil kettle and still achieve a "good" boil?
Can you heat water in the HLT with 240v while you are boiling the wort to sanitise your cfwc without using multiple power point outlets?
Can you tell us how long it takes to heat a wort from 66 deg c Mash temp to boiling?
Can you vouch that you dont get scorching of wort
with the variation in temperatures on the element due to thermostat temperature variation.?

Lou, we are all real brewers, it is generally, location, opportunity and personal curcumstances and preferences, that dictate our method.
The end decision is in the hands of the one setting up his or her equipment.
Wether you choose 240 v LPG, Natural Gas or light a fire of Malley stumps or Red gum under the kettle the results, (hopefully), should end up the same, or at least you should be able to repeat the result - consistently.

Lou, I have a 90 litre boiler and I brew 50 litre batches for fermentation, I only have access to a 10 amp supply of electricity at 240 v as most others, so in my situation I am extremely limited in my use of electric elements.
The 10 amp supply is fine for operating the March Pump and the light above the brew bench.

The comments regarding safety and operation of electric elements / urns etc that have appeared in the above
are enough to encourage me to submit my above post. Please forgive me if I have hit a nerve with the 240 volt set, but when it is all boiled down (forgive the pun), most new brewers have less access to expertise of wiring and controlling an electric element, or the worse two elements, to achieve boil, than they do dropping into a BBQ supply /HB shop and purchasing and setting up a simple LPG burner and regulator.
With any system there is a risk of danger to the inexperienced, but I would rather take my chances with a gas set up than 240 v unless you are qualified as an electrical fitter.
There is no law that prevents you buying and operating an LPG burner.
After all, you can smell gas but you can't smell electricity unless you are personally affected (read Zapped).
Lou, I wish you every success with your electric boiler and my comments are more related to the overall safety of newbies to AG than to the brewers who have electric element boilers.

Cheers and no offence to the real brewers out there be they spark or flame driven!!

 

[dicko]

Thanks Lou.
I have installed a switch to disable the thermostat. When the switch is "off", the urn runs as normal:
when the switch is "on" the power is permanently supplied to the element overiding the thermostat.
The element is 3000 watts and the switch I put in is 3 amps. I was not sure how many amps I needed
but the test with water worked fine.
Here are some pics.

Thanks

arthur

BTW Arthur,
Although I have no qualifications in electrical engineering I would have concerns regarding the three amp switch being suitable for the application.
You might like to check it with a qualified person to ensure that it is safe and suitable. :unsure:
Cheers