Electric elements hlt for herms

[Eddiejoes]

Hi guys,

Looking for a bit of advice, am putting together the component parts of a 10 gallon herms. I'm planning on doing step mashs but am a bit concerned that a single 2200 watt element in my hlt won't be enought to ensure a temperature rise of 1degree C per minute. I can always install multiple elements but would appreciate any thoughts or experience with similar you might have

Ed

 

[WarmBeer]

Find a comfy chair, pop on your reading glasses, pour a nice long cup of %beverage%, and start here.

 

[elcarter]

2200W in 10 liters of water will go pretty good but I can't say 1 deg per minuets guaranteed but I'd say it be close to 1-2 deg per minute.

Depends on how much copper coil you have immersed for the temp transfer, pump circulation and amount of water to heat.

Some of my beer brewing lads have a 2200W Herms setup and on brew days use it as a HLT circuit to warm up water before mashing in.

They pre- heat it a little on a gas burner and switch the herms on. Less equipment to lug around.

I'm surprised it works but does, pretty quickly i might add.

I've got 3600W in 50L keg of cold water and that's gets to 70 deg is almost no time. Should really time it instead of drinking beer.

Just keep in mind theoretically 3600 watts is near 11 amps and most modern houses are running 10 amps. You might find yourself in the dark if you go to big.

 

[TheWiggman]

Just keep in mind theoretically 3600 watts is near 11 amps and most modern houses are running 10 amps. You might find yourself in the dark if you go to big.


You sure? 3600W at 240V is 15A to my knowledge (P=VI). if you have a 3600W element on a 10A outlet I can imagine the electricals would be getting pretty warm.

 

[WarmBeer]

Guess who just got 32A wired out to his brew shed?

:super:

 

[elcarter]

You sure? 3600W at 240V is 15A to my knowledge (P=VI). if you have a 3600W element on a 10A outlet I can imagine the electricals would be getting pretty warm.

I did the math as well and mathematically got 15 amps too but the element doesn't seem to pull it.

Calculated it around 11 ish by trial and error.

I had a aircon, sound system, fluro's and 1 fridge + mu HLT on a 16 amp circuit with no problems - 16 amp Clipsal Circuit breaker with RCD.

Wiring was cool to the touch after an hour or so,

If I've ever learnt form electrics is it's always best to do the calculations but what's its rated to might not be what it pulls.

I suspect if the fridge and element kicked in at the same time it might get a little dark.

You might find that your at close to 250 -260V with all the solar panels on your street cranking up your voltage so that will drop the amp draw a little,

32A..... sweet!

 

[Eddiejoes]

Cheers for all the help guys, have decided to add a separate heat exchange vessel using an small 12 litre pot and old copper wort chiller reckon I should be able to control the temp in a vessel that small with relative ease with a single element and just let the hlt do it's thing getting my spathe water up to temp.

 

[Beerisyummy]

Cheers for all the help guys, have decided to add a separate heat exchange vessel using an small 12 litre pot and old copper wort chiller reckon I should be able to control the temp in a vessel that small with relative ease with a single element and just let the hlt do it's thing getting my spathe water up to temp.

That's much the way I have mine set up, less a 30 plate heat exchanger. I do around the same volume, but I use a portable induction cooker under my 50l pot as a booster during mashing and bringing to boil.

I think you might find the one element lacking a little for ramped step times. Probably best to just crack on with one and then add another later, if need be.

One thing to keep in mind is the extra energy needed to heat the water in the HE vessel. From my experiments less is always better.

What sort of control will you use for the element and will you be creating flow in the HE vessel?

 

[schrodinger]

Hope I'm not hijacking, but this seems closely-enough related. Mods, pls tell me if I should start a new thread.

I'm slowly designing and building an AG system myself, using HERMS and, most likely, 1-2 2200 W elements for the HLT. Can anyone advise whether the unit below would be adequate and suitable for controlling these elements (or perhaps two units, one per element, each on a separate 10A circuit)? It seems so, but with no experience with SSRs or PIDs, my instinct is to assume I'm an idiot.

http://m.ebay.com.au/itm?itemId=220888955443

 

[dent]

The K thermocouple is unsuitable for brewing. Use a PID with a PT100 input.

 

[sp0rk]

So something like this would be more suitable?
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/DIGITAL-PID-TEMP-CONTROLLER-F-C-25AMP-SSR-WITH-HEATSINK-AND-PT-100-PROBE-/261286976034?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cd5eada22

 

[dent]

Yeah that looks OK. Though you can probably get a better deal on the individual parts from HK/China with cheaper shipping too.

Also if you can get a 40A SSR for a similar price, it would be preferable, as they generate less heat which is nice.

 

[Beerisyummy]

The K thermocouple is unsuitable for brewing. Use a PID with a PT100 input.

Why is the K type unsuitable? I have one and have used it for several brews with accurate temperature readings. Double checked every time.

To be quite honest, I have a PT100 sensor and PID somewhere in the garage, but decided not to bother. The longer probe will be a pain in the arse to mount anyway.

 

[dent]

They're less accurate than the PT100 even under optimal operating conditions. It is difficult to extend the leads if required, since you need to use the same alloys in the extension wire.

And most importantly, in the cheap PID units, the measured temperature varies quite a bit depending on the temperature of the PID unit itself - which is real handy when you have your PID unit mounted in the same enclosure as your heat generating SSR.

 

[elcarter]

I just swapped out my K type from my HLT (which are +-2 deg accuracy apparently) for a 3 wire pt100.

I will never... ever.... go back.

 

[jazzad1]

The K thermocouple is unsuitable for brewing. Use a PID with a PT100 input.

in my experience a K-type thermocouple is fine for brewing