Efficiency ain't everything . . .but

[doon]

Are you changing brewmate to settings to BIAB? Go to settings, default settings, recipe type and change to BIAB. Then open up brewday button and see what the numbers are.

 

[GalBrew]

What is your water to grist ratio then?

 

[jacknohe]

Ok, I've read through post quickly so may have missed other suggestions. But you and I pretty much brew the same and I'm getting 70% constantly for a regular 5kg grist brew for 23L post boil (it varies a little depending on adjunct use, 75% or more if I use say 20% flaked maize or rice, 65% if I'm using 50% wheat...). I started with 65% hit and miss a little and then changed a few things.

Here's what I do different to you (I think):

I use 5.2 ph stabilizer. I use Sydney water. Looked at the water report for Ryde which services Nth Beaches and it was reasonably soft. Seems to work for me, not sure if its the answer though.

I use a colander over my element and mash in about 3L of water to 1kg of grain. So an average 5kg brew would be 15L. Mashout to 75.6c or so. Pull the bag up on the pulley and squeeze.

I've got a dirt strainer bucket from bunnings which I use to sparge in. Has worked ok so far. It has two parts, the bucket and the strainer. I take off the strainer, put the bag in the bucket and open it up so the bag is over the sides, pour about 8L of hot tap water over the grain. Let it mingle for a min then lift the bag, put the strainer back on the bucket quickly and sit the bag on it to drain. Give it a squeeze. Tip the liquid into the urn. Check the level and work out how much is left to get up to pre-boil volume. Then repeat sparge process but only pour enough hot tap water to reach pre-boil. Squeeze etc.

Other than that, the only thing is maybe its too much grain for the volume? Sounds funny, but I lose efficiency when I step up to a 6kg brew which I put down to an ineffective sparge on my part with BIAB.

 

[pommiebloke]

I would try:

• Very fine crush, bordering on flour
• 90 minute mash
• Mashout over 10 minutes while stirring well with a paint stirrer (this is the one I use and it is awesome)

 

[jacknohe]

I would try:

• Very fine crush, bordering on flour
• 90 minute mash
• Mashout over 10 minutes while stirring well with a paint stirrer (this is the one I use and it is awesome)

Yes, I mash for 90 mins also.

 

[ajmuzza]

What is your water to grist ratio then?

I generally mash 5.4kg to 26L strike water, so 1kg to 4.8L. Haven't ever considered if this is high or not, all I do is go off Brewmate brewday outputs (set up for BIAB).

 

[stm]

How are you measuring volumes? Eg, have you checked your water jug is correct (by weighing the contents), and how do you measure volumes in the urn?

 

[ajmuzza]

How are you measuring volumes? Eg, have you checked your water jug is correct (by weighing the contents), and how do you measure volumes in the urn?

I use the crown urn depth chart on this site produced by Tonesbrew

 

[MartinOC]

Caveat: I'm no BIAB expert, but....

Water/Grist ratio is going to affect your efficiency. Thick mashes are good for protein degradation/coagulation, but thinner ones are better for starch conversion. I'll bet you get REALLY clear beers??

The bucket method suggested above by jacknohe sounds simple & effective. You could always heat-up some extra water & use a watering-can to "water" your bag whilst it's draining then squeeze it (or not, as dictated by popular folklore :unsure: ).

 

[GalBrew]

I generally mash 5.4kg to 26L strike water, so 1kg to 4.8L. Haven't ever considered if this is high or not, all I do is go off Brewmate brewday outputs (set up for BIAB).

You could try more water, I've seen water:grain much higher. There is quite a bit of info regarding BIAB water:grain ratios in the archives.

 

[Pickaxe]

I had bad efficiency early on and did a few things ti improve things, now hitting 67.5 -
25 l mash for 90
13l sparge.
I remove hot break with my mash soon just before boil breaks.
Which has lowered my trub issues.
My thermometer was 1 degree out - so I compensate.
With those volumes on 5-5.5kg grist I hit 67.5%
End volume is 24-25l.
Stir vigorously while adding grain too. No dough balls.
Salt additives. Water ph was a drastic change. 7.5g of both calcium carbonate and calcium sulphate depending on beer. Ph is a huge factor - mash ph that is too.
I got a mate onto biab and he hit great efficiency first try.
My 2c for what it's worth.

pickaxe

 

[ajmuzza]

Thanks for all the responses. I think I've got a few things to try on a trial and error basis.

Query for those using Brewmate - it the default water grain ratio in the settings is 3 (ie 3L to 1kg) then why do recipes allow it to be varied from that. Assume its because if your mashing with a lesser volume then you"ll need to top up with water or sparge liquor?

 

[ajmuzza]

Thanks for all the responses. I think I've got a few things to try on a trial and error basis.

Query for those using Brewmate - it the default water grain ratio in the settings is 3 (ie 3L to 1kg) then why do recipes allow it to be varied from that. Assume its because if your mashing with a lesser volume then you"ll need to top up with water or sparge liquor?

Yeah, just ignore that query. Figured that one out.

Cheers

 

[Tex083]

Mash pH - Very important,
A Amalayse activity measured @ 60 From (Key concepts in water treatment - melbourne brewers)
pH - %
4.8 - 98
5.0 - 99
5.2 - 100
5.4 - 95
5.8 - 85
6.2 - 65

So if your not checking pH you MAX efficency could be as low as 65% Dont add calcium carbonate - it lowers mash pH and by the table having a slightly higher pH wont be any where as bad as a low pH.
I add half Calcium Chloride and Calcium Sulphate aiming for 100ppm calcium. Download the Key Concepts in water treatment and it will give you a formula to make a calcium soluition and add that to the mash. SIMPLE and effective.

 

[jberries]

I was getting low 60ies for effieiency and did the following, most of which have already been mentioned
1. double crush grain
2. after mash, raise temp to 75ish to mash out
3. teabag after the mash, in about 10 litres of 70 degree or higher water
4. put the entire boil, trub and all in the fermenter

Now I am in the 70-80% efficiency area. I probably get the most gains from 3 and 4
As for the last one, I think it is a preference thing, some people won't do it.

 

[verysupple]

Mash pH - Very important,
A Amalayse activity measured @ 60 From (Key concepts in water treatment - melbourne brewers)
pH - %
4.8 - 98
5.0 - 99
5.2 - 100
5.4 - 95
5.8 - 85
6.2 - 65

So if your not checking pH you MAX efficency could be as low as 65% Dont add calcium carbonate - it lowers mash pH and by the table having a slightly higher pH wont be any where as bad as a low pH.
I add half Calcium Chloride and Calcium Sulphate aiming for 100ppm calcium. Download the Key Concepts in water treatment and it will give you a formula to make a calcium soluition and add that to the mash. SIMPLE and effective.

I think you're confusing enzyme activity and conversion efficiency. Those numbers refer to how quickly the enzyme will work, not how much starch it can convert. The mash will still convert even if the enzyme isn't at 100% activity, it will just take a little longer.

You should also clarify if those pH numbers are for mash temp or room temp. Most brewing scientists agree that alpha-amylase is most active in the pH range 5.4 - 5.6 at room temp which I guess agrees with those numbers if they're supposed to be at mash temp.

EDIT: Also, calcium carbonate (CaCO3) raises pH.

 

[MHB]

[SIZE=medium]Been having a think about this over dinner, and I can’t for the life of me see why a BIAB brew conducted with reasonable water, at the right temperature and with a decent crack shouldn't be getting around 80% efficiency.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]I have only done a couple of BIAB brews and recall getting low 80's into the fermenter. After all the congress mash (the test we are comparing our yield to) is conducted in distilled water (no salts, no pH adjustments) admittedly it’s done at very high L:G ratios, it’s a step mash (sort of) and they are measuring everything that can be extracted including FAN (dissolved protein). Looking at a couple of COA's for various malts and the difference between a coarse (which is pretty fine by home brew standards) and a fine grind is only 1-2%.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Mate it’s going to be something dumb! When you find what's causing the problem it’s going to be a genuine Homer moment ("D'oh!")[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]See if you can get someone local who is getting reasonable efficiency to sit in on one of your brew days, there is a good chance that they will spot the problem (most home brewers work cheap - a couple of good beers are called for).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]It might be worth doing a brew in bought water; it going to cost you 20-30 dollars for ultra pure water (I use Pureau from Woollies for testing and yeast work), add 100 PPM of calcium in the form of Sulphate or Chloride (either or both - whatever you have) and see what you get, that might at least eliminate one of the possible problems[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]If all else fails - you can send me a water sample, I can check your pH and TDS, can’t do a real water analysis but anything wrong enough with your water to screw your brew is going to show up.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Personally I think your thermometer is stuffed, it’s the only thing that makes any real sense.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]Mark[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Oh and here is that congress mash, this is how you get 100% efficiency – tho the beer might be a bit suss.[/SIZE]
View attachment Congress Mash.PDF
[SIZE=medium]M[/SIZE]

 

[krausenhaus]

As it looks like the most obvious avenues have been explored, can you paste us one of your recipes? Are they all fairly similar?

 

[Thefatdoghead]

Reading through this thread I think there are a few right answers from different posts.

My mate came around with a kettle, some voile, and a burner. I supplied the rest and milled the grain, sorted the recipe etc.

I guessed an efficiency of 68% for BIAB. water to grain ratio very close to yours. Never done a BIAB before but we ended up with a gravity of 1.054, which was spot on what I was going for. Bit of luck I suppose but 68% none the less.

I think you should look at PH for one. It will need to be lowered if I had to guess. Acid.

Try a 3.2L/kg mash.

Sarge, as others have pointed out.

Wheat will lower your efficiency in my experience.

After mash at 66-68, if possible, raise to 72 and rest for another 20 minutes then mashout.

I really think its not 1 problem in this case, but, a number of reasons that have added up.

Hope this was some help mate, I know how frustrating it can be.

 

[DoctorBob]

Make sure you have minimum 2.5L water per kg grain in the mash otherwise mash efficiency drops off markedly. 3L per kilo is ideal. Splitting starch molecules into sugars, needs a molecule of water.
When I used to BIAB i did what i called "dunk sparging" to make sure i washed all the sugars off the grains. Basically i would lift the bag out of the mash, squeeze the hell out of it, then drop it in a bucket of warm water, poke it around a bit with a mash paddle, then add the liquor back. My efficiencies were 75% ish from mempry.