Dry Versus Ferment Hopping

[_HOME_BREW_WALLACE_]

 

[Hatchy]

Do you stir it when you pitch yr yeast or post ferment?

Is there any noticeable difference to the finished product?

 

[speedie]

Dan and quintrex

Thank for your civil comments in my investigation into hopping

Firstly if one states that they dry hop i conjure up pictures of old English brewers putting hops and swim bladder additives into wooden hogsheads or firkins

So as to not confuse some of the more itinerate brewers I named or called what I was attempting to prove to myself more than others ferment hopping

Ferment hopping; this is just a name tag concept that I thought i would give significant definition to a process as apposed to dry hopping

As stated there was an identical amount of hop introduced during the formulation of my beer the only difference was where it was added to the batch

I hear what you state re yeast absorption during fermentation process and or completion of said

If there is some scrubbing effect of the yeast in ferment would this be due to the friction effect that I was trying to present

When you think about yeast concentration there is still a significant amount left after attenuation

So would this have a bearing on your comments re absorption into cell wall membrane etc

I can see how you have had some difficulties in expressing some of your ideas as reflected in some of the earlier posts in this topic

It still amuses me after all these years of brewing the little things that give rise to discussion and healthy debate as opposed to open ignorance which has unfortunately presented itself here



The Citra brew was a good batch but wasnt what I was expecting given the amount of hop and effort that was put into it

If any of you doubt this example of brewing with ferment hopping try it for your self

And report your findings

Cheers and good brewing

Speedie

Ps hatchy try it

 

[Hatchy]

Ps hatchy try it

I kegged some of the "ferment hopped" batch. I didn't end up conventionally dry hopping it because I needed it in a keg for a party on Saturday night. I do still have a fair bit of it in the fermenter & have more columbus so I could chuck some more hops in but I reckon I'll leave it.

This batch has turned out way clearer (still not very clear though) than previous batches, I'm buggered if I know if the hops helped or not. Through a series of unfortunate events (laziness) it ended up getting mashed for 23 hours. I'm not sure whether or not that would've helped the clarity either.

 

[BjornJ]

Article by Ian L Ward "The Nature, Formation & Prevention of Beer Hazes"


Link





quote:
"An extreme example of haze formation in cask conditioned beers, is found as a result of dry hopping.
The addition of whole leaf or pelletised hop material
into the cask at racking imparts a spicy aroma and an
exquisite hop flavour to the beer, but almost always
produces a beer which proves extremely difficult to
clarify. In almost all cases, a silicate auxiliary fining
agent is effective in producing a haze free beer. The
phenomenon is still under investigation as to what
chemical component causes the turbidity and why
silicate auxiliaries solve the problem."


(edited to get the link to work)

 

[DanRayner]

If there is some scrubbing effect of the yeast in ferment would this be due to the friction effect that I was trying to present

Sorry speedie, I just can get behind this one. I have searched and searched my print resources at home and used Google Scholar combined with my access to ANU's subscriptions to online journals and I can't find a single article that provides proof of some form of friction effect. And that's not to say that it doesn't work that way but the published literature doesn't suggest that it does and I am just not going to believe it until someone can imperically show that this is what is happening and that it isn't a biochemical reduction by the yeast. I am not going to believe it just cos you think it happens that way, if I did I may as well join those happy-clappers at Hillsong or send all my money to the Scientologists.

 

[barls]

If there is some scrubbing effect of the yeast in ferment would this be due to the friction effect that I was trying to present

i thought from your earlier post it was the electricity that caused it, make your mind up and stick with one hair brained theory.

 

[bum]

i thought from your earlier post it was the electricity that caused it, make your mind up and stick with one hair brained theory.

The friction CAUSES the! lightning just like in the frequencies of nature.

It's not hard to follow, barls.

 

[jonocarroll]

Firstly if one states that they dry hop i conjure up pictures of old English brewers putting hops and swim bladder additives into wooden hogsheads or firkins

So as to not confuse some of the more itinerate brewers I named or called what I was attempting to prove to myself more than others ferment hopping

Ferment hopping; this is just a name tag concept that I thought i would give significant definition to a process as apposed to dry hopping

As stated there was an identical amount of hop introduced during the formulation of my beer the only difference was where it was added to the batch

I hear what you state re yeast absorption during fermentation process and or completion of said

If there is some scrubbing effect of the yeast in ferment would this be due to the friction effect that I was trying to present

When you think about yeast concentration there is still a significant amount left after attenuation

So would this have a bearing on your comments re absorption into cell wall membrane etc

I can see how you have had some difficulties' in expressing some of your ideas as reflected in some of the earlier posts' in this topic

It still amuses me after all these years of brewing the little things that give rise to discussion and healthy debate as opposed to open ignorance which has unfortunately presented itself here

speedie - it is your 'open ignorance' of anything that anyone has said. People answered your question pages ago, but you've ignored it entirely and instead continued to ramble on about your insane theories. You're not even reading this - you're getting ready to write another phucking useless post that doesn't mean anything. What does it even matter to you what the mechanism of clarity is - you're not going to refine it, or even take advantage of it. You're going to make a giant batch of beer, then people will drink it. This isn't an experiment. You're done, leave the experimenting to people who can do them.

I've kegged my 10-minute rye IPA (200g @ 10 mins, fermented, chilled, kegged - no 'extra' hops, but plenty for the ferment to scrub) and guess what; it's cloudy. It's so cloudy, Microsoft's considering buying and trademarking it in their ass-hattery attempt at popularizing 'cloud services' despite them offering nothing more than the god-damned internet to people. If your brew was an 'experiment', consider mine the falsifying example.

 

[barls]

The friction CAUSES the! lightning just like in the frequencies of nature.

It's not hard to follow, barls.

so this is what he means by powered yeast.
the friction causes the lightning which in turn powers the yeast.
now all we need to do is include mr lucus electrical theory of smoke and we are done.

 

[speedie]

qb i was under the impression that you where studing brewing science
and the good pratice of mashing techincs
what went wrong with your cloudy microsoft brew
was it the ferment temp did you rack off the yeast to early
must be frustrating for you
all that science for hazing brew

 

[bum]

speedie, it has been explained to you already that you have confused QuantumBrewer and Thirsty Boy. I'm explaining it again: you have confused Quantum Brewer and Thirst Boy.

 

[jonocarroll]

qb i was under the impression that you where studing brewing science

No, that's Thirsty Boy. Though it doesn't take TB's expert knowledge to see what you've done and why.

was it the ferment temp did you rack off the yeast to early
must be frustrating for you
all that science for hazing brew

I reversed the polarity when I plugged my yeast in, got a powder surge... hazy beer.

 

[barls]

 

[tavas]

Horse - life + flogging = this thread

 

[Hatchy]

qb i was under the impression that you where studing brewing science
and the good pratice of mashing techincs
what went wrong with your cloudy microsoft brew
was it the ferment temp did you rack off the yeast to early
must be frustrating for you
all that science for hazing brew

Aren't we all studying brewing science (in our own special way)?

As far as the microsoft beer, my guess is that he got blue beer of death & had to reinstall his fermenter with a Linux wort after formatting the fermenter. There's a chance that the new install caused compatibility issues with several inferior beer glasses but overall his beer will perform better. His new beer is unlikely to run on an iphone.

cheers

Hatchy

 

[NickB]

You need to turn compatibility mode on in your 'Koppafloc' preferences. Should sort out the issue.

 

[Nevalicious]

Seriously, I've never laughed so much at a thread... This guy just keeps on giving. Keep it up Speedie!

 

[jonocarroll]

You need to turn compatibility mode on in your 'Koppafloc' preferences. Should sort out the issue.

Ah, I've found the issue and written a script to patch the problem;

====
#!/bin/beersh

tar czvf wort.tar.gz *.grain *.hops *.water
mv wort.tar.gz fermenter/
tar zxvf /fermenter/wort.tar.gz
cp *.yeast fermenter/
mv fermenter/ fridge/fermenter/
setenv fridge_temp `echo yest.cfg | grep best_temp'
sleep 10d
echo 'koppafloc' >> *.beer 2> trub
find fermenter/ -name 'haze' -exec mv {} /dev/null/ \
echo 'CO₂' >> beer | glass
exit 0
====

and I've packaged it all up with a makefile so all I need to do now is type

make beer

 

[bonj]

Ah, I've found the issue and written a script to patch the problem;

====

#!/bin/beersh



tar czvf wort.tar.gz *.grain *.hops *.water

mv wort.tar.gz fermenter/

tar [/size][/font][font="Courier New"][size=4]zxvf [/size][/font][font="Courier New"][size=4]/fermenter/wort.tar.gz

cp *.yeast fermenter/

mv fermenter/ fridge/fermenter/

setenv fridge_temp `echo yest.cfg | grep best_temp'

sleep 10d

echo 'koppafloc' >> *.beer 2> trub

find fermenter/ -name 'haze' -exec mv {} /dev/null/ \

echo 'CO₂' >> beer | glass

exit 0

and I've packaged it all up with a makefile so all I need to do now is type

make beer

Your use of tar unnecessarily increases both disk usage and CPU usage. You fail to remove the tarball after it is extracted into /fermenter.
I would suggest you replace the tar with a simple

cp -a

. Perhaps some checks on /proc/fermenter for temperature and residual sugars along the way, so we know when it's finished, rather than just waiting a predetermined 10 days?