Dry hopping - what is correct?

[Elderfi]

This has probably been covered, so apologies for going over old ground.

When it comes to dry-hopping, information is scattered and inconsistent. So I want to get a view on what others do - mainly to see if what I am doing is wrong. Here's what I do:

Time
I generally like to give my beer 2 weeks in the FV, I think I read on here that it give time for the yeast to clean up after itself. In any case, the beer turns out OK so this is what I do. So From the two week mark, I work backwards usually 3-4 days from bottling.

Amount
Usually about 50 grams per 20 litre brew. So about 2.5 grams per litre. Although this depends on the style of beer and what I am after.

Method
I put them in a santized stocking which I sink with whisky stones (little blocks of marble). This isn't super effective at sinking, the bag floats to the top once it has taken on liquid, but for the moment it is what I do.

I used to commando, never again. It wasn't worth the headache, my bottle filling wand constantly got blocked; the hop matter ended up in my bottles and this created a really terrible situation where every time I would open a beer, it would gush and I would lose half. And the hop aroma / flavour continued to intensify. (no, I didn't cold crash - I haven't got the space for that kind of set up. And no, the gushing was not due to infection, the beer was very drinkable albeit with an ever increasing hop profile).

So questions:

1. The above process works for me, but I wonder if there are ways I can improve it
   • I've read people like to put the hops in while the yeast is still a little active. What is the benefit of this? If hopping with something that is renowned for "grassyness" then does that mean the 2 week in fermentor rule should be changed to accomodate?
   • What about pre-pitching dry hopping? Is that a waste of hops due to the C02, or the secret step I am lacking?
2. What do others do?

 

[wide eyed and legless]

What is correct in a lot of things in brewing?
You could read Peter Wolfe's 90+ page thesis on dry hopping or Scott Janish who has take some of this, and other scientific papers on dry hopping.
A Case for Short And Cool Dry Hopping - Scott Janish
http://scottjanish.com/what-we-know-about-dry-hopping/http://scottjanish.com/examination-...s-for-achieving-maximum-hop-aroma-and-flavor/Some reading material there.

 

[Cha]

What is correct in a lot of things in brewing?
You could read Peter Wolfe's 90+ page thesis on dry hopping or Scott Janish who has take some of this, and other scientific papers on dry hopping.
A Case for Short And Cool Dry Hopping - Scott Janish
http://scottjanish.com/what-we-know-about-dry-hopping/http://scottjanish.com/examination-...s-for-achieving-maximum-hop-aroma-and-flavor/Some reading material there.

Is there any way you happen to know in short what the best way is :S im all scientific papered out for the year

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Is there any way you happen to know in short what the best way is :S im all scientific papered out for the year

That is why I referred the OP to Scott Janish instead of Peter Wolfe, 90+ pages of an academic paper can be a bit much.
At the end of the day each of us will make up their own technique, but a bit of reading along the way helps somewhat.

 

[GalBrew]

The reason why your bottles are gushing is that the residual hop material in the bottle is acting as a nucleation point, which is resulting in your CO2 coming out of solution. If you can't cold crash it makes getting your dry hops out of your beer difficult. Cold crashing allows you to use 'naked' hops as they will sink to the bottom of your fermenter. Dry hopping during fermentation is really about biotransformation of various hop flavour and aroma compounds.

Personally, I just throw the hops into my conical fermenter and then cold crash to sink the hops into the cone of the fermenter.

 

[kadmium]

To answer your question in MY EXPERIENCE (limited at best lol)

Adding hops for any longer than a week can produce grassy / vegetable flavours.

Hopping during active fermentation (high krausen) lets the yeast biotransform the hops, creating a different effect than simply dry hopping after fermentation.

Adding the stocking to dry hop is perfectly fine. I would try the disposable hop bags if you want to make life easier, and you can weigh them down with anything non pourus. In mead making, I have used marbles to take up head space when aging. Just be careful if the fermenter is glass.

You will never get a consistent answer for dry hopping because its like asking what strain of yeast to use. It's very personal.

 

[philrob]

Answer is one of two options:
Yes
42

I usually dry hop after about week of primary fermentation (normally done in about 4 days). Last batch I dry hopped was a DIPA and I left the hops in there for 10 days in a hop bag, weighed down with some stainless spanners. No problem. Although normally I don't dry hop for more than 5 to 7 days.

 

[BrewLizard]

I used to commando, never again.

I got screwed by the same advice when I started brewing too. Bagging the hops since about batch 3 has made a huge different to how smoothly everything onwards has gone. Custom voile bag with a drawstring, boiled for a few mins before adding hops has worked a treat.

I'm soon going to skip fermenter dry hopping and start keg hopping (hanging to about halfway in the keg) to try for a more fresh hop flavour in future.

 

[yankinoz]

The extraction of aromatic oils from hops takes no more than 2 days, and there is plenty on this in various boards. Whether to let it go longer depends on tastes and subsequent handling of the beer. Some hops biotransform differently than others, and a rule that it's always good seems suspect to me. Biotransformation is not dependent on residual hop material. If you bottle and carbonate or for any reason keep a keg warm, I'd assume that biotransformation continues, and that there was no good reason for an extended dry hop in the fermenter. My own experience with bottled beer consistently backs this assumption. If you keg and chill and want biotransformation, go for a longer dry hop.

 

[Andy Graham]

This has probably been covered, so apologies for going over old ground.

When it comes to dry-hopping, information is scattered and inconsistent. So I want to get a view on what others do - mainly to see if what I am doing is wrong. Here's what I do:

Time
I generally like to give my beer 2 weeks in the FV, I think I read on here that it give time for the yeast to clean up after itself. In any case, the beer turns out OK so this is what I do. So From the two week mark, I work backwards usually 3-4 days from bottling.

Amount
Usually about 50 grams per 20 litre brew. So about 2.5 grams per litre. Although this depends on the style of beer and what I am after.

Method
I put them in a santized stocking which I sink with whisky stones (little blocks of marble). This isn't super effective at sinking, the bag floats to the top once it has taken on liquid, but for the moment it is what I do.

I used to commando, never again. It wasn't worth the headache, my bottle filling wand constantly got blocked; the hop matter ended up in my bottles and this created a really terrible situation where every time I would open a beer, it would gush and I would lose half. And the hop aroma / flavour continued to intensify. (no, I didn't cold crash - I haven't got the space for that kind of set up. And no, the gushing was not due to infection, the beer was very drinkable albeit with an ever increasing hop profile).

So questions:

1. The above process works for me, but I wonder if there are ways I can improve it
   • I've read people like to put the hops in while the yeast is still a little active. What is the benefit of this? If hopping with something that is renowned for "grassyness" then does that mean the 2 week in fermentor rule should be changed to accomodate?
   • What about pre-pitching dry hopping? Is that a waste of hops due to the C02, or the secret step I am lacking?
2. What do others do?

Regards gushing, hops contain approx 5% sugar. This will cause additional fermentation in the bottle, extra CO2 = , yep, gushing.

 

[butisitart]

having never dry hopped, and about to try it at brew# 170, i've done a truck load of reading posts and websites over the past couple of days.
i know this is one of many ways to to it, but with grassiness, gushing, etc etc in mind, i'm thinking to go the wort (apparently not water), which i can use the trubbier bit in the bottom of the grainfather after wort transfer, steep that with dry hops into a coffee plunger @65 degrees, then plunge and pour tea into fermenter.
any big negatives on that approach?? i understand that you get slightly different results, different approaches. but that seems to be a 'safe' way of doing it without the hassle of socks etc. and apparently you can freeze hops after plunger and add to next boil for bittering.
this is a precis of about 2 trillion reads, so any final thoughts are welcome before i jump in. i do no chill then bottle, if that makes a difference in approach

 

[theSeekerr]

Regards gushing, hops contain approx 5% sugar. This will cause additional fermentation in the bottle, extra CO2 = , yep, gushing.

They also contain diastase enzymes, so they can promote some further conversion of complex sugars and starches into a simple, yeast-digestible sugars. I've seen this drop FG by 1-3 points on IPAs.

 

[Hangover68]

Still OT but how do you work out the amount of hops to use when dry hopping ? , the recipe calculators will give you the IBU's for boil additions but i haven't seen anything that provides info on dry hopping.

 

[butisitart]

Still OT but how do you work out the amount of hops to use when dry hopping ? , the recipe calculators will give you the IBU's for boil additions but i haven't seen anything that provides info on dry hopping.

i'm guessing, through lack of info, same boat as you, but i'm guessing that cos beersmith etc can't measure aroma, then aroma in a 3ibu hallertau could be stronger than the aroma in a 12% ringwood, for example.
so, about to do my first coffee plunger tea dry hop, and thought to go the good old days when we were weaning off kits.
they usually recommended 3-7 gr for a 23L fermenter. not much, but i remember you could certainly taste the aroma effect off those sorts of quantities. so failing better advice, i'll be going ball park 5gm on my first run, and keep notes. i only want hops to compliment the grain and yeast in a beer, not to own the bloody thing
(bottling, not kegging, and no cold crash)

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Still OT but how do you work out the amount of hops to use when dry hopping ? , the recipe calculators will give you the IBU's for boil additions but i haven't seen anything that provides info on dry hopping.

Have a read of this, may explain a bit more.
http://scottjanish.com/dry-hopping-... become less bitter by,are 66% less as bitter.
Then read this.
https://www.sun-sentinel.com/health/fl-xpm-2012-12-26-fl-jjps-taste-1226-20121226-story.html

 

[butisitart]

Have a read of this, may explain a bit more.
http://scottjanish.com/dry-hopping-... become less bitter by,are 66% less as bitter.
Then read this.
https://www.sun-sentinel.com/health/fl-xpm-2012-12-26-fl-jjps-taste-1226-20121226-story.html

enjoyed janish - relationship beer ibu to dry hop interesting. might diary that into my brew notes - shouldn't be difficult, maybe a bit subjective cos there's no sin qua non to establish quantitative evaluatios, but if you use old similar ibu recipes, you'd get an idea of where it's all going.
doesn't telll me how much to load in though haha

 

[kadmium]

When you dry hop you get almost no bitterness. Which is why Beersmith gives no IBUs for it.

5gm for 23L? Lol I just dry hopped with 150g for 21L and it wasn't enough (agree that's for a NEIPA)

If you're not interested in dry hopping large quantities, then to be honest I would just add it to Flameout.

I wouldnt bother with making the tea etc for 5g of hops (my opinion)

Also, hops provide a nucleation point which can contribute to gushing.

You won't get grassy / vegative notes unless you hop for a long period. Like 1week plus.

By all means try it and see, will be interested in how it goes but a hop sock is very easy.

Just put it in a glass of sanitiser, leave for 5 minutes. Put your hops in. Drop in. Leave 3ish days and bottle. That would be my method.

But I'm a bit cooked in the head and keg, so I just add 150+g naked into the fermenter and then keg it about a week later.

 

[butisitart]

When you dry hop you get almost no bitterness. Which is why Beersmith gives no IBUs for it.

5gm for 23L? Lol I just dry hopped with 150g for 21L and it wasn't enough (agree that's for a NEIPA)

If you're not interested in dry hopping large quantities, then to be honest I would just add it to Flameout.

I wouldnt bother with making the tea etc for 5g of hops (my opinion)i

Also, hops provide a nucleation point which can contribute to gushing.

You won't get grassy / vegative notes unless you hop for a long period. Like 1week plus.

By all means try it and see, will be interested in how it goes but a hop sock is very easy.

Just put it in a glass of sanitiser, leave for 5 minutes. Put your hops in. Drop in. Leave 3ish days and bottle. That would be my method.

But I'm a bit cooked in the head and keg, so I just add 150+g naked into the fermenter and then keg it about a week later.

mmm, dry hop addition is after already boil hopping to bring IBUs to where i want - so the dry is just for aroma.
even as bittering, i don't often hit 75gms on 46L to middle the beersmith calcs. i don't think i've ever hit 100g. haha - 150gm on 21L?? my eyes are bleeding just thinking about it Lol. i would need an IBU rating of sub 1% to get there. i'm sure it works, but that is so outside my square

while room to move on a sock, i'll give it a whirl on the coffee plunger at the very start of the ferment for a few laps and see - at this stage trying to avoid what i perceive to be extra work, sock management, and opening of fermenters. but early days. can you use a sock for 150g?? would a commercial prawning net be easier??

 

[goatchop41]

If hopping with something that is renowned for "grassyness" then does that mean the 2 week in fermentor rule should be changed to accomodate

This is a commonly repeated piece of homebrewing bullshit. Many, many homebrewers keg hop and leave the hops in there for over a couple of months, with no hints of grassiness. So that puts the whole argument about time spent with dry hops in the beer to bed.

I personally find that it is related more to hop variety and amount - I've dry hopped with >2g/L of saaz and gotten grassiness that I didn't get at 1g/L. Same with galaxy when I hopped at about >10g/L, whereas it was fine at 8g/L (I don't know why that happened with galaxy, because I have had commercial beers that were well above that rate and they were fine)

 

[kadmium]

i don't often hit 75gms on 46L to middle the beersmith calcs. i don't think i've ever hit 100g. haha - 150gm on 21L?? my eyes are bleeding just thinking about it Lol.

If it makes you feel better I used 150g during the boil (mainly at Flame Out) and 150g dry hop for a total of 300g