Don't Be Disheartened By The Anti-extract Hype Of All Grain

[Impy]

Found this great article today - http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/page...beer-experiment

It's pretty clear that good clean processes and controlled fermentation are the keys to good beer. Don't let the haters put you off your hobby!

 

[Wolfy]

It's pretty clear that good clean processes and controlled fermentation are the keys to good beer. Don't let the haters put you off your hobby!

Interesting interpretation since the article says this:

Initially at kegging, the all-grain beer was the best by far.

 

[glaab]

i thought that was odd and was gonna ask why it came second but i presume that "at kegging" means out of the fermenter
so you cant really judge it b4 its carbed i spose. I'm a big fan of extract beer but that is hardly irrefutable proof that extract is better than AG

 

[loikar]

Don't let the haters put you off your hobby!

Yes, Agreed!
All you people out there that are completely against the hobby of home brewing...Ga'rn git yaself a big brown dog up ya sideways, with un-clipped nails, a studded collar and a nest of fire ants up it's arse!

And screw this AG Bullshit, I'm going back to my sweet, sweet, goop brews. It's quicker and it tastes just as good as any AG.

h34r:


BF

 

[DU99]

* 2 cans malt extract (LME)
* 1.3 oz (37 g) Mount Hood hops, 4.9% a.a. (30 min)
* 1 3068 Wyeast Weihenstephan Weizen yeast


OG: 1.048 to 1.063 (varies with manufacturer of LME)
IBU: 14
Directions
Bring 1.5 gallons of water to a boil, turn off heat and add LME stirring well as wheat malt burns easier than other malts. Bring mixture to a boil and add hops, boil for 30 minutes. Add cool water to bring wort volume up to 5 gallons. When cool enough, transfer to your fermenter. Add yeast when the temperature drops to under 75 (24 C), preferably 70 (21 C).

It don't mention wheat malt in the recipe or it saying don't use wheat malt

 

[Liam_snorkel]

It don't mention wheat malt in the recipe or it saying don't use wheat malt

here:

Coopers
First Tasting
Score 37.3, first place. All malt with 50-percent wheat malt. It is packaged in 3.3-pound cans.
OG 1.055, FG 1.014.Country of origin for the malt is Australia.

 

[Nick JD]

Very believable ... with a weizen yeast.

Like to see the same thing with a Pilsner.

This is a bit like saying, "Instant coffee is better than fresh ground and brewed - when the recipe is a caramel, chocochino with soy milk."

 

[Malted]

This is a bit like saying, "Instant coffee is better than fresh ground and brewed - when the recipe is a caramel, chocochino with soy milk."

I don't understand Nick. Isn't this the best coffee in the world?

 

[Kevman]

Very believable ... with a weizen yeast.

Like to see the same thing with a Pilsner.

This is a bit like saying, "Instant coffee is better than fresh ground and brewed - when the recipe is a caramel, chocochino with soy milk."

You know I've bought some absolutely crap fresh ground and brewed coffee that a cup of instant would have been better. I've even had good and bad cups of coffee from the same place depending on which staff member served me, how busy they were, and a myriad of other factors.

I'd say that a good cup of coffee, like a good homebrewed beer comes down to quality of ingredients and good processes. This proves it.

 

[Tim]

Plenty of Kit and Extract beers have scored really well at NSW comps in the past. I don't really understand the Goop haters. Everyone has to start somewhere.

 

[nathanR]

I don't think that i will ever go to all grain due to the fact that i could not justify to myself the costs,equipment and time it takes to make

I don't want to start a 357 page discussion on how i can do it for under $10 I just like the fact that you can make very tasty beer at home quick and easy

I currently have a nice process of hops and dex in the fementer and then boiling water on top leave it to sit for 10-15 mins add the coopers goop and malt throw in some more hops add some water re pitch some yeast and then leave for 2 weeks and bottle then repeat

Sure it is not comp worthy beer but its tasty better than mega swill and hits the spot after a long days work

 

[Wolfy]

I don't think that i will ever go to all grain due to the fact that i could not justify to myself the costs,equipment and time it takes to make

The time factor I understand, but I think (when buying ingredients in bulk) that AG would end up being cheaper even if you consider the initial equipment costs.

 

[Impy]

Interesting interpretation since the article says this:

Initially at kegging, the all-grain beer was the best by far.

Sorry, I don't understand. Why does what the beers tasted like before they were ready to be drunk have anything to do with the end result.

Imagine at a baked cake competitions, the judges taste all the cakes and decide on the best one. Then you come along and say "oh but this one that didn't taste the best at judging tasted the best before it was put in the oven"....... sense.. it makes none.

 

[loikar]

I don't really understand the Goop haters. Everyone has to start somewhere.

Without trying to start a whole barrage of goop brewers getting all defensive...

[Rant]
I have a problem with the whole fictional "right of passage" mindset to AG brewing
Why does goop have to be the starting point?
Why can't a brewer just go straight to AG?
There is no law that you must earn your K&K > K&B > All extract > AG wings.
Over my years of brewing I have seen so many brewers (and I used to be one of them) that would say "one day I'll move to all grain" or "when I get more knowledge i'll move to all grain" or "I'm not ready for AG yet" and honestly, I am kicking myself that I didn't move to AG straight off the bat.
It's no harder than Extract brewing, if anything, you get more time to have a few beers with friends and family while they're being your 'lift bitches'.

There is no right of passage, there is no "step program" that you need to take.
It's just beer!, nothing more, get over the whole "AG is for advanced brewers" because it's flat-out fu&king not.

And if you're happy with your extract beers, good onya. Good luck with that.
But if you have plans of moving to AG "One Day", then there is no reason why that day can't be your next brew day, even if it's its a 5L batch on the stove.

I know I stir the pot around here in regards to Extract beers being shit. But really, all I want you extract brewers that have an intention of moving to AG "one day" to do is make a small batch of AG beer.
If it turns out shit, and you have done everything right, then I'm happy for you to fling your shit at me.
[/Rant]

I love you all.

BF

 

[chunckious]

I went straight to BIAB mini batches. I new so little that I didn't know that you had to put water in the air-lock.
That batch became my first "air-flow"ale. Learn as you go.

 

[Lord Raja Goomba I]

Have to agree with BF there.

I did K&K/Extract for 10 years (give or take a few months - sometimes I say 11, sometimes 10). If I'd known what I did now, I'd have never brewed kit in the first place.

Other than sanitisation, it taught me nothing. I'd have jumped in AG off the bat.

Having said that, 10 years ago, AG brewers didn't have access to the grains and hops they do now. So if you're starting up, jump straight in. The stuff that's important either way, such as yeast health, what racking does, sterilise everything and how to bottle/keg - isn't that hard to learn at all.

But the thing is, that with AG brewing, the stuff that makes a really good beer (mash temp, boil times for hopping, decoction (for some), more flexibility with ingredients, that sort of stuff) is only learnable as an AG brewer. And only an AG brewer is likely to bother, because they've made the choice that quality is more important than time.

Sure, a good extract brewer will hop and probably do it well, but no extract brewer would waste an hour properly bittering a batch of beer - after all the reason for extract is mostly a time based decision (from my personal experience). And extract brewers are limited in their base malts, whereas an AG brewer can whack Rye with Floor Malted Boh Pils malt if they so choose.

And that is the fine tuning that makes a good beer great.

Yep, a poor AG beer is worse than an average extract beer. But if the brewer in both instances has great process control, the AG brew will win. Mine do, hands down, and I thought my extract beer was really good. But the comments I'm getting from my tasters now are very much better than they were before.

Finally, whatever you produce, you have to live with the time spent to make it, the money spent on it and the beer you drink. If you do extract and you don't have the urge to make it better/different, stick with it and enjoy it. If you have this nagging feeling that you want to do more, then come to the dark side.

Goomba

 

[Impy]

Very believable ... with a weizen yeast.

Like to see the same thing with a Pilsner.

This is a bit like saying, "Instant coffee is better than fresh ground and brewed - when the recipe is a caramel, chocochino with soy milk."

My point wasn't to say that it was better, my point was that it's not as bad as AG brewers make it out to be.

It seems no matter how many extract beers win prizes, no matter how many expert judges can't fault extracts in blind tasting, and no matter how many experiments show that concentrating wort doesn't change the flavour... it seems there is a near fanatical screeching of "extract is dishwater compared to AG brewing".

Yes with AG you have more variables that can be purposefully adjusted.. but the demonstrable net effect of those adjustments have less impact on taste than good quality ingredients, preparation and fermentation.

We all love brewing, why do people have to perpetuate derogatory remarks against extract brewers? Especially since the evidence really doesn't support the extract haters.

 

[Nick JD]

Extract brewing isn't bad, extract brewers sometimes are.

I still make the occasional extract batch - it's great, but tends to be a bit expensive - and with the 60 minute boil still needed, doesn't really save all that much effort.

It makes supurb beer (esp. the LDME, Dex, Spec malts, Hops and Wyeast) - but there are many styles it just can't do. For me that's its downfall.

That and the cost. By the time it's tarted up, it's twice the cost of AG.

Had they done the same experiment with Bohemian Pilsner as the Style, I fear the outcome may have been different. You could make a decent Weizen using poop as the base as long as you used 3068.

But in all fairness, it's K&K that gets the bum rap and rightly so in many cases. That shit's terrible in the wrong hands.

 

[Malted]

But in all fairness, it's K&K that gets the bum rap and rightly so in many cases.

 

[Impy]

BF - RE: AG right of passage.

Anyone can start anywhere they want to. Goop doesn't HAVE to be the starting point, but you have to admit that AG requires a huge amount of knowledge and equipment compared to K&K.

It's just the logical starting point, less knowledge, less money, less time.. it's logical on all three aspects for someone to start with extract and work their way up.

You might not thinks it's complicated now, but try remembering day zero when you started, with all the variables of AG there is infinetly more oportunities for something to go wrong with a newb trying AG. More chances for them to get frustrated and throw the hobby away.

.. but no extract brewer would waste an hour properly bittering a batch of beer.

I do.. and all my friends who do extract do as well.

Have a look for some extract recipes online. You'll be hard pressed to find one that doesn't have "proper" hop bittering. I'm not sure where you got this opinion from, because it's demonstrably wrong.