Do Campden Tablets Reduce Chloride?

[benno1973]

Reading Noonan's 'New Brewing Lager Beer' the other day, he states that Potassium Metabisulphite (Campden tablets) can be used to reduce chloride. Other reading on the web (and surely the web is always right?) seems to indicate that campden tablets break chlorine and chloramine down to chloride, thereby adding a small (almost negligible) amount of chloride.

Anyone know the correct answer? I'm in Perth and my chloride ranges between 140-185, which is pretty high already.

 

[Barry]

Good Day
I use a 1/4 campden tablet per 30 L of water when brewing to get rid of the chloramine. I really can't say how much it would add but I think it would be insignificant. Hope someone knows for sure.

 

[benno1973]

Actually I notice that he talks about Potassium Metabisulfite - is this different?

 

[hefevice]

Potassium and Sodium Metabisulphate both work the same way (strong reducing agents). They will work on free Chlorine, or as already stated, Chloramines, but they will have no effect on the levels of Chloride Ions, which is clearly what you need to control.

Main options for high Chloride levels are mixing with distilled or Reverse Osmosis (RO) treated water, or building water from base distilled/RO through additions of the appropriate mineral salts (Calcium/Magnesium Sulphate, Calcium Chloride, Calcium Carbonate, Sodium BiCarbonate).

 

[drsmurto]

Actually I notice that he talks about Potassium Metabisulfite - is this different?

No, same thing.

Apparently ph is too difficult for americans so they dumb it down to an f.

 

[benno1973]

Thanks guys. Yep, I think cutting with RO or distilled water will be an interesting experiment to see what effect it has on the final product. Noonan says that water levels of Na and Cl over 100ppm shouldn't be used, and my water seems to have around 110 and 160 respectively.

 

[eamonnfoley]

Reviving your old thread. I had a Ward laboratories test done on my Maylands water while I was in the USA recently. Cl came out at 201 and Na 121.

 

[bear09]

Reviving your old thread. I had a Ward laboratories test done on my Maylands water while I was in the USA recently. Cl came out at 201 and Na 121.

link to said thread = http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=54111 (I think)

 

[Bribie G]

This thread seems to be mired in the common misconception that chloride = chlorine.

FTWCIL (for those who came in late - I think I just invented that one and I claim ownership)

Chlorine: the free gas that gets up your nose at swimming pools and can be detected in a lot of drinking water. Added to kill bugs.
Chloride: the ion of Chlorine which is in the likes of common salt, calcium chloride beloved of us brewers etc etc and not free chlorine at all.

Campden Tablets (Sodium Metabisulphite) will remove Chlorine taint by ionising it to Chloride ions.

Knowing how much Chloride you have in the water is handy because the ratio of chlorides to sulphates in the water has a big influence on whether it's suitable for malt accented or hop accented beers.
E.g. more Sulphate to Chloride = hop accented as in Burton on Trent
more Chloride to Sulphate = malt accented such as London or Yorkshire ales.

If I'm doing a water Nazi style brew I start with RO water and build it from there using a calculator such as EZ Water. (free).
RO water units start at around $250 so great tax return purchase :icon_cheers: but do many many brews so work out inexpensive per brew in the long haul.

 

[eamonnfoley]

This thread seems to be mired in the common misconception that chloride = chlorine.

FTWCIL (for those who came in late - I think I just invented that one and I claim ownership)

Chlorine: the free gas that gets up your nose at swimming pools and can be detected in a lot of drinking water. Added to kill bugs.
Chloride: the ion of Chlorine which is in the likes of common salt, calcium chloride beloved of us brewers etc etc and not free chlorine at all.

Campden Tablets (Sodium Metabisulphite) will remove Chlorine taint by ionising it to Chloride ions.

Knowing how much Chloride you have in the water is handy because the ratio of chlorides to sulphates in the water has a big influence on whether it's suitable for malt accented or hop accented beers.
E.g. more Sulphate to Chloride = hop accented as in Burton on Trent
more Chloride to Sulphate = malt accented such as London or Yorkshire ales.

If I'm doing a water Nazi style brew I start with RO water and build it from there using a calculator such as EZ Water. (free).
RO water units start at around $250 so great tax return purchase :icon_cheers: but do many many brews so work out inexpensive per brew in the long haul.

Tested values of Chloride (not chlorine) of 200ppm and Sodium of Na of 121 is proof that Perth water (or at least Mt Yokine sourced) is generally unsuitable for brewing. The figures are far too high to produce good beer. Adding sulfates to balance the chlorides will just produce harshness in the presence of high sodium. I have experienced this. Cutting down with RO or starting with RO is required - if your looking for great beer.

 

[Bribie G]

Yup that's more or less what Nev reckoned (and not just because he was trying to sell me a unit, I rang him ) - he said that even half and half RO really lifts Perth brewed beers.

 

[outbreak]

Tested values of Chloride (not chlorine) of 200ppm and Sodium of Na of 121 is proof that Perth water (or at least Mt Yokine sourced) is generally unsuitable for brewing. The figures are far too high to produce good beer. Adding sulfates to balance the chlorides will just produce harshness in the presence of high sodium. I have experienced this. Cutting down with RO or starting with RO is required - if your looking for great beer.

I have been wondering about this. I was in disbelief on some of the readings that Perth had compared to some other cities water reports... Looks like an R/O unit is the way to go then...

BribieG: Tax deductible you say?

 

[Bribie G]

No, I meant that if you get a refund it's a pain free way of spending $250 before SWMBO gets big ideas B)
Maybe if you are in a food business or something you could claim it, or depreciate it?

 

[outbreak]

Sorry I only read what I wanted to see. With how bad our Perth water is to drink it should be a bloody tax deduction. At around 250 dollars I see it being a good investment.

 

[Bribie G]

I've obviously never been to Gryphon's and don't know what the store is like but pop in and have a look and feel of the unit, and maybe they've got a sample or two in the fridge :icon_cheers:
It actually takes a couple of hours to run off a batch, and you end up with a washing machine full of so called waste, so I do just that and sit the unit on the Top loader with the waste pipe into the machine. The unit runs at garden hose pressure so I imagine the commercial desal water plants pressurise the incoming water to buggery.

 

[eamonnfoley]

Nev is over in Bassendean. He is very accommodating time-wise, especially if you need to come after hours (like I always do!)