Disappointed With My Kolsch

[cpsmusic]

Hi,

Two weeks ago I had a go at brewing a Kolsch. It was my fourth attempt at AG (I've done two pale ales and a stout which all worked out really well). I cracked open a two-week old sample bottle last night and I'm a bit disappointed with the results for two reasons:

Firstly, the batch has a lemonade-like carbonation - the bubbles are quite big and the head collapses almost immediately. The other batches I've done have been fine so I'm wondering what's different about this batch

Secondly, the taste is a too sweet. The OG was 1050 and the FG was 1010 so I think the fermentation was OK (it was also quite vigorous - the yeast was WLP029). I'm thinking that there wasn't enough hops in the recipe. I used 25g of 5.2% Hallertau in a 20 litre batch - this was supposed to give me 20 IBU.

One thing I haven't done is cold-conditioning - would this make a difference?

Anyway, I'm keen to figure out what went wrong with this batch before I start the next one - any thoughts?

Cheers,

Chris

 

[hockadays]

What was the grain bill?

 

[Tony]

the hops you stated would give you about 20 IBU in a 90 min boil..... how long did you boil them for?

Also, what temperature was it fermented at?

Kolsch yeast will usually run cool...... usually down to 13 deg but they are best between 17 to 20 for their sweet fruityness that is part of the style. You said fermentation was vigerous...... how hot did it get?

Also 1.050 is top of the style guideline strength and 20 IBU is lowest of the guideline bitterness. You probably would have been betteroff with 25 to 28 IBU. I usually make them 1.048 and 26 IBU, with enough hallertau added in a 40 min boil to get the bitterness.

If at first you dont suceed, try and try again.

For the over carbonation, de cap em and re cap em a couple times to let some gas out. Either you over primed or it wasnt quite done.

cheers

 

[Hargie]

...mash lower bro...try 63c...actually try 52c -10 min, 63c 60-75 min, 72c 15 min ,77c mash out...

 

[cpsmusic]

What was the grain bill?

Here it is:

20 Litre Batch

3.5 kg Weyermann Pilsner
0.22 kg JWM Wheat Malt
0.22 kg Weyermann Vienna
25 g Hallertau (5.2 AA%, 90 mins) - 20 IBU
1000 ml WLP029
1/2 tablet Whirfloc

Boil time was 90 mins.

 

[cpsmusic]

...mash lower bro...try 63c...actually try 52c -10 min, 63c 60-75 min, 72c 15 min ,77c mash out...

I'm doing the mash in an esky so I don't think I can do stepped mashes (?)

 

[cpsmusic]

the hops you stated would give you about 20 IBU in a 90 min boil..... how long did you boil them for?

Also, what temperature was it fermented at?

Kolsch yeast will usually run cool...... usually down to 13 deg but they are best between 17 to 20 for their sweet fruityness that is part of the style. You said fermentation was vigerous...... how hot did it get?

Also 1.050 is top of the style guideline strength and 20 IBU is lowest of the guideline bitterness. You probably would have been betteroff with 25 to 28 IBU. I usually make them 1.048 and 26 IBU, with enough hallertau added in a 40 min boil to get the bitterness.

If at first you dont suceed, try and try again.

For the over carbonation, de cap em and re cap em a couple times to let some gas out. Either you over primed or it wasnt quite done.

cheers

Does the collapsing head mean that it's overcarbonated?

 

[DJR]

What mash temp did you go for/achieve?

Recipe looks fine, mash temp might have been approaching protein rest territory perhaps

Btw you can step mash in an esky, just takes hot (boiling) water additions + stirring

 

[Effect]

I'm doing the mash in an esky so I don't think I can do stepped mashes (?)

Then do decoctions! :super:

 

[sirhendo]

Here it is:

20 Litre Batch

3.5 kg Weyermann Pilsner
0.22 kg JWM Wheat Malt
0.22 kg Weyermann Vienna
25 g Hallertau (5.2 AA%, 90 mins) - 20 IBU
1000 ml WLP029
1/2 tablet Whirfloc

Boil time was 90 mins.

Replace the Vienna for some Weyermann Carapils and mash @ 66C. Perhaps a little Nelson Sauvin at flame out? Yeah....that sounds nice.



Hendo

 

[Tony]

I'm doing the mash in an esky so I don't think I can do stepped mashes (?)

Yes you can. Mash in at 2L/kg at 52 deg. Use Promash or beersmith to calculate how much water you need to step it up to mash temp (64 is perfect) and have it ready. Rest at 52 deg for 10 min and pour in the boiling water and stir like a wiked witch to get it all equalised. You have just step mashed! its that easy.

If you want i can work out the exact volumes and temps for you based on my experience with esky brewing. I usually get within half a degree.

Does the collapsing head mean that it's overcarbonated?

Usually yes. It can be other things as well but over carbed beer with big bubbles will have troubles holding a head, especially in a young beer.
Eg. Guinness....... a creamer in the tap makes all the bubbles really REALLY small so the head that forms is dense and compact and ends up sitting in the bottom of the empty pint glass. Small bubbles will form a alyer of foam thats stronger and more stable. Big bubbles just pop and do nithing!

take the caps off to dump some gas! If you have twist tops, crack them and then tighten again but watch for foaming as the pressure drops suddenly in the bottle.

Replace the Vienna for some Weyermann Carapils and mash @ 66C. Perhaps a little Nelson Sauvin at flame out? Yeah....that sounds nice.



Hendo

I dont want to offend here but no.

Carapills isnt needed in a kolsch. If anything it will add to any sweetness, being a very pale crystal malt. The vienna is ok, not usually used but ok. If anything, swap the vienna for pils.

and if your gunna put NS in a kolsch, you might as well bitter it up with Cascade and call it an American Kolsch

Kolosch should be simple, delicate, subtle, subdued and ballanced with nothing in the beer poking its head out and saying Hidy Ho

cheers

 

[manticle]

Hi,

Two weeks ago I had a go at brewing a Kolsch. It was my fourth attempt at AG (I've done two pale ales and a stout which all worked out really well). I cracked open a two-week old sample bottle last night and I'm a bit disappointed with the results for two reasons:

Firstly, the batch has a lemonade-like carbonation - the bubbles are quite big and the head collapses almost immediately. The other batches I've done have been fine so I'm wondering what's different about this batch

Secondly, the taste is a too sweet. The OG was 1050 and the FG was 1010 so I think the fermentation was OK (it was also quite vigorous - the yeast was WLP029). I'm thinking that there wasn't enough hops in the recipe. I used 25g of 5.2% Hallertau in a 20 litre batch - this was supposed to give me 20 IBU.

One thing I haven't done is cold-conditioning - would this make a difference?

Anyway, I'm keen to figure out what went wrong with this batch before I start the next one - any thoughts?

Cheers,

Chris

I'm confused with your time frame. Brewed 2 weeks ago or bottled 2 weeks ago?

How long was the ferment schedule and how hot was it?

I say a big yes to cold conditioning and a big yes to step mashing german styles (I use an esky too - how water additions, decoctions and immersion elements are all put to good use here). Not a kolsch brewer but its cousin alt should be fermented cool - I'd guess the same applies here.

That's all general though - in regards to the head, all things being equal, maybe you just haven't given it enough time? Sweetness suggest the priming sugar still has some work to do and I get big bubbles early in the process which settle to nice creamy head with time.

Check in 3 weeks.

Just re-reading - it it really gassy? How sure are you that it was finished?

 

[BoilerBoy]

I'm doing the mash in an esky so I don't think I can do stepped mashes (?)

I almost always do a step mash using my esky. E.G If I was puting in a total of 15L mash water I would put in 9.5-10L of water for a 52-55C protein rest then add the remaining water at (boiling) to lift the temp to whatever mash temp in the 60"s I want.

To lift it higher again for better efficiency or mash out drain some of the wort through the esky tap and bring to boil and put back in the mash.
Saves using your sparge water.

Too easy

As for Kolsch as a style I dont mind it, but it doesn't overwhelm me, I think what Tony said about your oG and IBU balance could be on the money at a guess.

Cheers,
BB

Should also add that Kolsch beers from many brewers I have spoken too are notorious for disappearing head, which almost contradicts all the pictures you will see of them in that tall cylindrical glass where the head is high and thick. I wonder what it would look like if the same picture was taken a few minutes later?

 

[cpsmusic]

I'm confused with your time frame. Brewed 2 weeks ago or bottled 2 weeks ago?

How long was the ferment schedule and how hot was it?

I say a big yes to cold conditioning and a big yes to step mashing german styles (I use an esky too - how water additions, decoctions and immersion elements are all put to good use here). Not a kolsch brewer but its cousin alt should be fermented cool - I'd guess the same applies here.

That's all general though - in regards to the head, all things being equal, maybe you just haven't given it enough time? Sweetness suggest the priming sugar still has some work to do and I get big bubbles early in the process which settle to nice creamy head with time.

Check in 3 weeks.

Just re-reading - it it really gassy? How sure are you that it was finished?

It was brewed on the 16/01 and bottled on the 23/01. I don't have temperature control but I try to brew during cooler periods - from memory it was a run of 20 - ish degree days - it definitely wasn't too hot.

 

[manticle]

7 day ferment is too short in my book. The beer needs time to condition and yeast to do it on.

I reckon it wasn't properly finished and it's not finished carbonating (as in still priming sugar uneaten) - thus leading to sweetness and overcarb large bubbles.

Have looked through the thread a couple of times and still can't see your mash temp either.

 

[Punter]

Recipe looks good apart from the Vienna, It really doesn't need it,.
Mostly pils with a bit of wheat if wanted.
Next time drop your OG a few points if you want to keep it at 20IBU, otherwise up the bittering.

As for this batch, give it a bit more time conditioning and taste again in a couple of weeks.

Should also add that Kolsch beers from many brewers I have spoken too are notorious for disappearing head, which almost contradicts all the pictures you will see of them in that tall cylindrical glass where the head is high and thick. I wonder what it would look like if the same picture was taken a few minutes later?

Heres an old pic of the Kolsch I make. Photo was taken a few minutes after pouring, nothing wrong with the head here.

Tony, say nothing about the tennis racquet.

 

[Tony]

Tony, say nothing about the tennis racquet.

Ahhhhhh yeah i remember picking you on that one mate

Still a great looking beer by a great looking brewer

how is the double volly over arm coming along anyway? :lol:

 

[whitegoose]

Should also add that Kolsch beers from many brewers I have spoken too are notorious for disappearing head, which almost contradicts all the pictures you will see of them in that tall cylindrical glass where the head is high and thick. I wonder what it would look like if the same picture was taken a few minutes later?

I'm certain that the BJCP guidelines say that a Kolsch's head will disappear... In fact just looked it up - "Has a delicate white head that may not persist."

 

[fcmcg]

I brewed my Kolsch yesterday ( recipe similar to brewing classic styles), and when one of the sponsors ( down the road )gets its latest supply of kolsch yeast this week , it'll be poured from the cube into a fermenter....
now when researching this style , one thing i did note was that a good lagering time was necessary to clear the beer....
So it'll be at least 4 weeks before i sample it....
One thing that i will say , is that certain beers really do scream out for fermentation temperature control. IMHO , a Kolsch ( esp if using wyeast 2565) is one of those beers....and should also be lagered....
Bloke...try Gumtree/evilbay...whatever...but you will seriosly improve a beer like this , if you can have good temp control..and if you can do it...get a fridge...
As for your current batch....i reckon its far too young...
Give it time....
+1 for everyone else's comments
Cheers
Ferg

 

[dj1984]

that looks like my kolsch recipe and mine turned out fine i used that beer for my case swap and got good feedback, BUT i put it in to the sa comp and failed big time and my guess it was the vienna so now my kolsch beers are just pils and maby some wheat if i feel like it, my latest is in the fermenting fridge and all i used was wey boh pils and its tasting awesome