Cube questions

[kadmium]

Currently fermenting a cube that is 4 years old. Smelt as fresh as the day it went into the cube.

Can't wait for all that botulism!

It's fine. Pretty sure you'll only know when you don't wake up....

 

[Noodlebrew1984]

If you are having issues going over gravity, you can try diluting (on brew day or at pitch time). On brew day you can then run off enough to collect wort for starters; and at pitch time you can get a larger batch size for your efforts.

Yeah I actually did dilute pre-boil. I took it above 27 litres (which was my target volume) to hit my numbers, then mixed it well and took another reading. When I got the pre-boil numbers right, I scooped out the excess to bring it back down to 27 litres. But like I say, something is amiss with my readings

As for my issue with US-05. It makes no difference if I re-hydrate the packets or if I just sprinkle them in, it always over ferments!

Is this just what US-05 does, or am I pulling too many fermentables from my mash? Should I mash nearer to 70°c next time?

Cheers

 

[Noodlebrew1984]

Currently fermenting a cube that is 4 years old. Smelt as fresh as the day it went into the cube.

Can't wait for all that botulism!

That is cool as ****. It excites me about being a fellow cuber now

 

[fdsaasdf]

Yeah I actually did dilute pre-boil. I took it above 27 litres (which was my target volume) to hit my numbers, then mixed it well and took another reading. When I got the pre-boil numbers right, I scooped out the excess to bring it back down to 27 litres. But like I say, something is amiss with my readings

As for my issue with US-05. It makes no difference if I re-hydrate the packets or if I just sprinkle them in, it always over ferments!

Is this just what US-05 does, or am I pulling too many fermentables from my mash? Should I mash nearer to 70°c next time?

Cheers

I have never had an issue like you describe with US-05 over-attenuating - it's the most consistent yeast I've used and I stick to it for anything needing a clean neutral flavour.

I wonder if you might have a calibration issue somewhere with volume or grain weights; or a process issue with your brew design / efficiency calculations...

 

[Paddy Melon]

Hi guys, I couldn't find what I was looking for so here I am. My question is when a wort is made and placed into a 20 litre cube then stored for a month until ready for fermentation, can additional water be added to the fermenter at that time to bring it to 25 litres? I don't see a problem with this but have no idea if it may affect the brew.

 

[MHB]

Sure, in fact many if not all the fresh wort kits on the market say they can be brewed as is for higher alcohol/flavour or diluted. There really isn’t any difference between a homemade "cube" and a FWK.
Just remember that your water needs to be clean, chlorine free and ideally sterile, if you wanted to dilute post fermentation add oxygen free to the list.
Mark

 

[Paddy Melon]

Thanks Mark, much appreciated.

 

[blacktop™]

Sure, in fact many if not all the fresh wort kits on the market say they can be brewed as is for higher alcohol/flavour or diluted. There really isn’t any difference between a homemade "cube" and a FWK.
Just remember that your water needs to be clean, chlorine free and ideally sterile, if you wanted to dilute post fermentation add oxygen free to the list.
Mark

Oxygen free H2O? Is there such a thing?
It kinda…wouldn’t be water?

 

[fdsaasdf]

Oxygen free H2O? Is there such a thing?
It kinda…wouldn’t be water?

I am no scientist but I presume MHB is referring to the water being free of excess Dissolved Oxygen, or having oxygen in the headspace of the container.

Not all water is equal - unless completely demineralised it contains various other elements like calcium - and the proportion of oxygen varies greatly which has significant impacts to chemical and biological applications. For example, boiling is a technique used to reduce the oxygen content in water. Doing so reduces the DO which is a key factor in avoiding/slowing the spoiling of beer (and preserving food, and scientific experiments, and many other things).

 

[blacktop™]

I totally agree.

I just didn’t know that diluting post fermentation was even a thing.
It’s risky to say the least lol

 

[MHB]

Not all that uncommon in commercial brewing. There are issues with brewing at too high a gravity (yeast stress for one) but you can make more beer in the same sized equipment.

As fadsaasdf said we are talking about "Dissolved Oxygen" in post fermentation dilutions. Boiling will reduce DO but bubbling Nitrogen through the water is cheaper on a large scale (just like an Air Stone for adding O2 to wort pre ferment), for all the reasons he gave above. N2 doesn’t sterilise like boiling would.
Mark

 

[chrisfromperth]

Oxygen free H2O? Is there such a thing?
It kinda…wouldn’t be water?

LOL. Yes, it would be hydrogen

They mean dissolved oxygen. Water that comes out of the tap has about 5 parts per million oxygen. Well-aerated water, up to 15ppm. It doesn't sound like much, but it's enough to react with beery good things and let them start to taste stale. Unless of course we're about to pitch a starter. Yeast will consume all of that oxygen and more as they go through their growth phase.

 

[mynameisrodney]

I've only diluted post fermentation once, but it was the fastest oxidising beer I've made by a factor of about x10. Will not be doing again.

 

[yankinoz]

Not all that uncommon in commercial brewing. There are issues with brewing at too high a gravity (yeast stress for one) but you can make more beer in the same sized equipment.

As fadsaasdf said we are talking about "Dissolved Oxygen" in post fermentation dilutions. Boiling will reduce DO but bubbling Nitrogen through the water is cheaper on a large scale (just like an Air Stone for adding O2 to wort pre ferment), for all the reasons he gave above. N2 doesn’t sterilise like boiling would.
Mark

There's always Campden tablets. Added after bringing water to a boil the needed amount would presumably be 1/5 of that needed to deoxygenate cold water. See How much disolved oxygen is removed by boiling water?

Obviously more would be needed if chlorine is also present.

Re commercial brewers I read that Coors brews to 7 1/2 percent and dilutes to reach either their main brand (4.6% abv?) or their Lite.

 

[MHB]

To save 1000 words

Link Engineering Tool Box
All brewing liquor should be pottable water and Chlorine free, take that as a given.
Mark

 

[Coalminer]

Why not dilute pre-fermentation?

 

[yankinoz]

To save 1000 words
View attachment 120961
Link Engineering Tool Box
All brewing liquor should be pottable water and Chlorine free, take that as a given.
Mark

Point taken. Cancel the Campden tabs, though they might be useful to take up oxygen if one cools the water and then pours it in an aerating fashion.

 

[MHB]

Perhaps, would be pretty silly thing to do.
Just no-chill any diluting water, if you treat it like a no-chill wort it will be fine. Would be worth finding some Jerries around the size you expect to use as obviously once opened it wouldn’t be sterile or O2 free for long.

Coalminer
It isn’t something I do often or recommend, but for commercial brewers if you took the example Yankinoz mentioned. Diluting from 7.5% to say 4.6% means you can make 63% more beer in the same fermenter and big SS fermenters aren’t cheap... The big boys are using antifoam agents to cram even more into their fermenters; some are filling to 90%. Have to think it's more about $'s than flavour.
If you have the fermenter volume, for sure I think you will make better beer and more of it by diluting before fermentation. You are taking les risks with oxidisation, infection or contamination to, so feck yes dilute first if you can.
Mark