Crown Or Birko Urns - Extra Element Installation?

[Bubba Q]

While on the Urn topic, BribieG do you find that with the exposed element that it's harder to clean ? I find that even if I steep grains or do a mini mash in a saucepan, after I strain the husks off, that ensuing boil often leaves small patches of bkack burnt on gunk on the bottom. Not enough to taint the beer flavour, but a pain to clean (lots of elbow grease) . You may have no such instances with a bag for all I know.

And if you get a chance, is it possible to take a picture of the Birko's internal base with the element ? im leaning towards the Birko (later in the year) because it makes sense that an exposed element will be a bit more efficient. Just wondering about the cleaning.

cleaning is fairly easy, I just use a standard kitchen scouring pad on the element and it works a treat.

 

[Renegade]

Thnaks BribieG, Im really quite convinced from all the feedback that the Birko is marginally advantageous for this purpose (that is, for BIAB)

Was actually looking at the 3000 watt model (often the same prices at many places) but didnt know you need to change the circutry in your house. Im a renter, so stuff that, I wont be spending any money on the place.

 

[Renegade]

I also notice BribieG that you dont have a tube connected on the inside to the tap like Pollux does. From the outside, these urns look like the tap is mounted quite high. Do you lose a couple of litres (probably avoiding the trub, so that would actually work in your favour, yea?) or are the pics misleading and is the base hollowed out in the underside and filled with the electronics ?

 

[Bribie G]

And if you get a chance, is it possible to take a picture of the Birko's internal base with the element ? im leaning towards the Birko (later in the year) because it makes sense that an exposed element will be a bit more efficient. Just wondering about the cleaning.

Yup one of those green scratchy pads is fine, but I'm getting a bit of chalky 'haze' here and there. However you can get an urn cleaner from catering companies - a bit like an electric iron / kettle descaler I suppose. Don't need it yet.

I also notice BribieG that you dont have a tube connected on the inside to the tap like Pollux does. From the outside, these urns look like the tap is mounted quite high. Do you lose a couple of litres (probably avoiding the trub, so that would actually work in your favour, yea?) or are the pics misleading and is the base hollowed out in the underside and filled with the electronics ?

Yes a lot of the base is electronics. I don't lose a lot to trub because with using Whirlfloc and a bit of a rest before draining I get nearly all the wort, with a bit of tipping. However as a tweak I collect the last litre into a sterilized lab bottle (Schott Bottle) and keep it next to the cube to cool down and settle out, and decant off the clear part into the fermenter at pitchin' time along with the cube contents:



And for the really ugly shot, here's what's left, probably about less than a litre. After draining and washing with some 'blast' most of that grey stuff comes off the element, it's not burned on, just sort of caked on and the green pad takes off the rest.



Edit: you can just make out that the level of the spent goop is a fair way below the tap outlet.

 

[flattop]

I don't get much wort lost to trub, i use a pool filter (like a sock) and can tilt the urn right over, drain the wort through the sock and then only trub is left with very little liquid.
Crundle was going to try my method, not sure if he has yet, but i get a fairly clear wort.
That said, i have noticed my fermenter trub is much bigger since i moved from kits to AG but i figure that it's just the finer grain flour getting through the filter.
I still get very clear beer from most of the bottle....

 

[crundle]

I gave it a try flattop, but not sure if I had the right material. It was from Woolies supermarket, in the pool section, elastic bags that had a fair bit of stretch in them, with a fine weave. I tried it in the neck of the cube, but it filled up with trub and I had trouble getting it out of the neck of the cube without emptying it first. Next brew I will try it again, but will tie the sock over the tap to catch the last litre only.

As far as cold break, the last beer I did ended up with break material up to the 7 litre mark on the fermenter, but it was really fluffy, it subsequently settled down to 2 litres, and will probably end up even less than that after a few days in the fridge to chill it before kegging.

Crundle

 

[flattop]

They are the right ones, mine fill up sometimes also, there is a bit of an art to it, control the flow- watch to see if it's filling up, my cube (which is a Jerry) has 2 necks so i fill one and then the other.
Sometimes i pull it out and rinse it and put it in again...
I used whirfloc with the last brew i also waited 10 mins before draining and that helped as most of the trub settle faster.
That brew in particular i had no problems, 1 sock only and all the wort drained through, then i bumped the tap off the cube and lost a litre.

Oh and you do have to be careful pulling out, it can fill up and spill over....
I think the results are worth it but it can be fiddly.

 

[seravitae]

I had an idea the other day for easily adding new elements to containers.. Maybe it will help someone here..

Buy a 1" female BSP to 1/2" female BSP adapter. screw the element (male BSP) into the adapter after adding some short wiring and feed it through the adapter. screw the 1/2" female over the male BB bulkhead, slide it through your drilled hole and fasten it...

 

[flattop]

huh?

 

[seravitae]

stick one of those thru the wall of the container - that gives you a leak-free hole with threading on both sides. then you can get threaded elements and use an adapter/coupler to join them.

 

[Bribie G]

Don't worry about cold break. Cold break is the best yeast nutrient and is designed by God to be an integral part of the wort when you pitch.

 

[crundle]

stick one of those thru the wall of the container - that gives you a leak-free hole with threading on both sides. then you can get threaded elements and use an adapter/coupler to join them.

Yeah, this is something I was thinking about as an option to get more heating in the urn, but now I think I am tending towards getting an over the side immersion heater in preference to adding another element permanently. If anyone could stuff up and end up ruining their urn, it would be me. My track record of things not working well is long and well documented! The over the side immersion heaters seem to be cheap enough, flexible enough in their application, and wont potentially ruin the urn.

As for cold break, I am with you BribieG, it has been in all my AG beers, and they have been fine.

cheers,

Crundle

 

[Renegade]

fook BribieG, My siceresetest 'pologisin's, mate. I just noticed that I was responding to BubbaQ's picture and not yours, The internet browser was a half-mast earlier, I shape it so there's no user name icons, just text, so the boss doesnt see me so blatantly bludging on the internet.

Thanks you though BubbaQ. Your second outer rod looks more bent that his

I think I'll go "Birko". And look out for the BIAB 'Urners' WIKI.

That Schott bottle of wort looks really clear !

 

[crundle]

I have gone out and bought a 4108B 2400W over the side immersion element to supplement the boil of the Crown urn, and will pick up the camping mat foam today on the way to work.

Winter brewing - here I come!!!

Crundle

 

[Thirsty Boy]

remember that you will still need to be careful which circuit you are running the extra element on - most peoples houses are better than mine, but I have a total of 20A before my fuse kicks in .. so I could do two 2400W elements - but I'd have to turn everything else in teh house off first. So I cant. Even if your house is better than mine... you still might not be able to run more than 20A through any given circuit. So you might need to to make sure the one you are using for your brewing doesn't have any other gear running off it. Or run an extension lead from a power point on a different circuit.

Or you might not - modern houses probably have heaps more available juice than mine.

You 4800W will probably be too much for your boil .. I suspect you will end up turning the urn off and using the element by itself. A bit of a PITA but if its only an issue during the winter months.. not too bad I suppose. You certainly have heating grunt to spare now.

 

[Bribie G]

When I'm running the 2400 urn and need to boil a kettle as well (at the same twin power point) I have to turn the urn off otherwise it will trip the ELCB. Boiling a kettle in the kitchen instead works fine. You should have seen me at midnight last night getting the temp up after my protein rest and sprinting between kitchen and garage with kettles Maybe you can run an extension lead from an adjacent room for the add-on.

 

[QldKev]

remember that you will still need to be careful which circuit you are running the extra element on - most peoples houses are better than mine, but I have a total of 20A before my fuse kicks in .. so I could do two 2400W elements - but I'd have to turn everything else in teh house off first. So I cant. Even if your house is better than mine... you still might not be able to run more than 20A through any given circuit. So you might need to to make sure the one you are using for your brewing doesn't have any other gear running off it. Or run and extension lead from a power point on a different circuit.

Or you might not - modern houses probably have heaps more available juice than mine.

You 4800W will probably be too much for your boil .. I suspect you will end up turning the urn off and using the element by itself. A bit of a PITA but if its only an issue during the winter months.. not too bad I suppose. You certainly have heating grunt to spare now.

20A what a luxury, we have to put up with 16A on our power circuit. .... and I still get a $650 power bill!!!!

QldKev

 

[flattop]

Beat me to it TB... look the trick is if you want to run a couple of different appliances that you need to find 2 individual circuits, i run my urn from one powerpoint and then if i boil the kettle i use another powerpoint which is on a different circuit.
It's easy to work it out, if you turn 2 things on at once and it pops the breaker then they are on the same line, run an extension cord from another room and you will probably be on another line.....
Newer houses will have several powerpoint lines...

Oh QLDKEV, if you want 20 amps you'll find it around the hotplate or oven, you could tap into those circuits as long as you run the urn OR the oven, run both and it will blow the fuse....

 

[QldKev]

Oh QLDKEV, if you want 20 amps you'll find it around the hotplate or oven, you could tap into those circuits as long as you run the urn OR the oven, run both and it will blow the fuse....

Good idea, just went had a look
we have
1 x 16 for power
2 x 16 for lights - why two???
1 x 16 HWS
1 x 32 Stove..

I think I found some extra power

QldKev

 

[Thirsty Boy]

Good idea, just went had a look
we have
1 x 16 for power
2 x 16 for lights - why two???
1 x 16 HWS
1 x 32 Stove..

I think I found some extra power

QldKev

hah!! - and you derided my lack of power. We have a separate circuit for the lights - but for power its 20A total (and this is because I replaced the circuit breaker from 16A and pray the house doesn't burn down....) . Dishwasher plus kettle plus anything else = tripping the power

If I had 32A for the stove that would get run down to my brewery so fast the wife wouldn't have time to say "what about dinner you *******...."