Critique my next APA

[Doctormcbrewdle]

I'm looking for a simple, clean, quaffable pale with a neat malt background and hops to jump out at the forefront. Not too bitter, but balanced

Whaddya think? I've already milled and mixed the grain bill so can only add to it, not remove anything. Apparently I can expect an FG of 1.008. Thanks!

 

[Matplat]

Looks pretty good to me, but use dextrose instead of sucrose. Sucrose is glucose and fructose in one molecule that the yeast has to generate the right enzymes for to split into its constituents before it can ferment it. This process also produces undesirable flavours as I understand it.
Dextrose is pure glucose, so no extra work required for the yeast to ferment it.

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Thanks mate. I think I remember reading in John Palmer's book that a 10 minute boil breaks it down? Maybe someone else has a little more info

 

[Barry]

Looks good. I brew a very similar APA. I don’t use sugar/dex for APA’s (I do for AIPA’s). I use a bit more base malt to hit OG and mash temp of 64-65oc if want a lower FG. Also most of my hopping is bittering/FWH then the aroma/flavour hops steeped at the end of the boil. Dry hop as necessary.
Just some ideas, not rules.

 

[Coodgee]

I don't see any reason to put sugar in an APA. If you want more alcohol that add more grain in the same proportions. I think you are also a bit too bitter for a balanced beer. I'd move some of the first wort cascade to the 10 minute addition to bring the IBUs down to the high 20's or early 30's. That's the quaffable range in my book, especially if you decide to keep the sugar.

 

[indica86]

Why so much gypsum?
And as above, quaffable with low fg I'd go a fair bit less bitterness.

 

[Barry]

Missed that, start with something like 3 g CaSO4 and 1 g CaCl2 (give a gram or two) IMHO.

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

I have pilsen water here, but am open to any critiques?

Why so much gypsum?
And as above, quaffable with low fg I'd go a fair bit less bitterness.

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Interesting. How would this go with pilsen water profile? Definitely open to any tips for a better pale ale

Missed that, start with something like 3 g CaSO4 and 1 g CaCl2 (give a gram or two) IMHO.

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Well it's a nice drop! The sucrose slightly dried it out somewhat and hop flavour shines through fairly well. Though not as well as the best boutique APA's on the market but in saying that, just as good as most (actually bought a 6 pack of random pale's for trial yesterday)

I'm happy with the recipe, and what Maris Otter brings to the table BUT, hop taste and aroma is just a tadd muted. I believe this will be solved next brew as I completely overhaul my brewing process to include: oxygenation of wort, more late hops below 75 degrees and purging of oxygen from process and bottles. Will update!

 

[Garfield]

3% crystal is bang on the money for my APA. I could take it or leave it with sugar... I've had success both ways. Another option would be a few hundred grams of melaniodan if you want more malt complexity and a little color.

40IBUs is a big quaffer but if that's your preference then rock and roll

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

I see what you're saying about the ibu', and it is a tiny bit bitter; but in a good way

I like what the couple late additions bring to flavour

 

[Garfield]

If you want the best of both worlds you could go even later with the additions. For example, whirlpool/flameout hops add flavour, aroma and perceived bitterness but dont add any IBU

 

[manticle]

40 ibu is good in my book. 35 - 45 would be my aim. Balance the higher bitter with a tad more crystal if desired. Pilsner urquell and westmalle tripel are both around 39 as an indication. No sugar. 50-100 ppm calcium, calcium sulphate the salt of choice although I may dose 1:3 sulphate/chloride.

For me - MO or golden promise as a base (vienna can also work), around 150- 200 good crystal (caramunich i or simpsons heritage are faves) Touch of biscuit if I feel like it. FWH with some cascade, bitter with more cascade, then another bunch in the whirlpool. Dry hop optional. Cascade plays well with many other hops if you want to vary it up - amarillo,simcoe, citra, styrian goldings, challenger, touch of chinook to balance the fruitiness. I prefer whitelabs london ale but saf05, wy1056, 1272 or denny’s favourite are all great. Latter two winners among those.

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

That's what I'm doing this next recipe. Same base, just first wort. Bittering and whirlpool. I say whirlpool and not flameout because apparently any heat above 80 or so strips volatile oils almost immediately.

If you want the best of both worlds you could go even later with the additions. For example, whirlpool/flameout hops add flavour, aroma and perceived bitterness but dont add any IBU

 

[stewy]

Looks good.
Only change I would make would be to remove the sugar.
I would also add MO to up the OG to 1.050, but that’s me!

 

[Garfield]

That's what I'm doing this next recipe. Same base, just first wort. Bittering and whirlpool. I say whirlpool and not flameout because apparently any heat above 80 or so strips volatile oils almost immediately.

I've been whirlpool hopping at flameout. I didn't know about 80 degree addition. Do you heat exchange or just wait for temp to drop?

 

[Doctormcbrewdle]

Always something new to pick up along the way. Keeps it fresh!

There's people who do three additions even. Flameout, 80 and 60 degrees saying that each ine adds something different. Though, Brulosophy did an exbeeriment about this too and couldn't note an actual difference (take it with a grain of salt and determine results yourself)

In theory, no hops added at heat above 60 degrees or so add any aroma (hence dry hop for aroma). But I'm sure there are those who disagree and I haven't done it enough yet to give much of an opinion

I've been whirlpool hopping at flameout. I didn't know about 80 degree addition. Do you heat exchange or just wait for temp to drop?

 

[manticle]

Hops added above 60 degrees will add aroma, most defintely. Even a 60 minute addition can contribute to the aroma of a beer, considering how much flavour experience is driven by our sense of smell.

Aromatics are by nature caused by volatile compounds so the higher the heat and the greater they are exposed to oxygen, the more quickly they'll be driven off but there's no cut-off at 61. Dry hopping will even add some bitter compounds - it just won't contribute significantly to IBU since very little of the alpha acids will be isomerised and dissolved at that temperature.

 

[Barry]

Interesting. How would this go with pilsen water profile? Definitely open to any tips for a better pale ale

I find that Sydney's water is very low in Ca, SO, Cl. so it needs some addition IMO, especially calcium. I find 4 to 6 grams of salt is enough in most cases. Malty beers (e.g. Scottish ales, helles, viennas etc.) I use 4-5 grams of CaCl2. Pils and Dortmunders CaCl2 2-3 grams, CaSO 2-3 grams. APA's, AIPA's, EIPA's etc., I usually use 4 grams of CaSO4. I find too much "salt" additions can make it too minerally, even harsh. However you need to take into account the water profile of your tap water or whatever you are using. Also your own taste. Hope this helps.