Counter Pressure Bottle filler (CPBF) techniques.

[drtablet]

Hello,
I've been using a CPBF for a few weeks.
I wanted to ask people what pressure and temperature they bottle at.

I bottle direct from the fridge at 2C and 13PSI which is my serving pressure.

I think ideally if I dropped the PSI to 5 then I'd get less of a squirt mess when I popped the bottle off once its filled. Right now the head space has froth which is great for it pushed out any O2 from the headspace (even thought I've already displaced O2 with CO2 before I started.
BUT reducing my PSI from serving pressure of 13 down to 5 would mean that my beer starts to lose carbonation as I'm bottling.
If I was bottling a 19 or 50l keg then I imagine having the PSI at 5 instead of the serving pressure of 13 (2C) would cause decarbination. Or is this over doing it, would having a 13PSI carbonated beer at 5PI for 60-90mins really have a noticeably effect?
So what do people do with the best effects?

 

[good4whatAlesU]

About 12psi at 4 degrees works for me. I try to chill the bottles too before filling..

If you bottle early enough (within a month of kegging) the yeast still has a little life I think and will generate a bit more CO2 in the bottle in addition to the forced carbing.

 

[Dan Pratt]

the beer should already be carbonated at which ever pressure you need to achieve your desired volumes of said carbonation.

the packaging process can be done at any pressure required to get the beer into the package, this will not affect the carbonation of the beer which is packaged.

I cant recall carbonating a keg to my target volume of C02 in solution and then it somehow goes flat aka lose carbonation, it will only do that if the head space has O2 from leaving the purge valve open.

 

[good4whatAlesU]

^mmm... but if you drop the pressure in the keg (carbonated at 13psi) to 5psi and push it into a bottle at 5psi before uncorking it to put a cap on, . Will it not at least lose some carbonation?

I prefer to pressure the bottles up to a similar pressure to carbonation pressure.

 

[Andy_27]

I think you'd lose more carbonation from the frothing up by filling at the higher pressure than from dropping the pressure to 5psi. But either way, I think the amount would be negligible.

 

[scomet]

Dan Pratt is correct, whats important is the beers cold the bottles are cold and the C02 will stay in solution at what ever volumes you applied...

 

[good4whatAlesU]

I think you'd lose more carbonation from the frothing up by filling at the higher pressure than from dropping the pressure to 5psi. But either way, I think the amount would be negligible.

There is minimal frothing because the pressure inside the bottle is the same pressure that the beer is entering the bottle. That's the whole point.

 

[Andy_27]

There is minimal frothing because the pressure inside the bottle is the same pressure that the beer is entering the bottle. That's the whole point.

Yeah but the OP said his head space is filled with froth.

 

[good4whatAlesU]

Technique. The pressure inside the bottle must be at or above the pressure of the liquid entering the bottle.
When you pull the bung out there will be foam, but if you're relatively quick you can whack a cap on without too much trouble.

 

[drtablet]

thanks Gents,
True there is very little foaming while the bottles are filling. - even with the beer at 2C at the bottles at 18C
The froth comes from pulling the bottle off the bung.
I feel this "release" would be more gentle at 5psi than 13psi, but concerned that dropping a keg to 5PSI for an hour of bottling time would lead t the bottles at the end losing carbination.
I'm going t try it this weekend at 5PSI.

 

[malt junkie]

I usually keg at around 8-9 psi, if I'm setting up to bottle, the night before I increase pressure to 12psi, I then bottle at 15psi. If bottling at a pressure lower than carb, the carbonation will drop off even over the period of bottling , thus creating more foam. Bottling at a high than carb pressure should help reduce foaming up until the point of removing the bottle from the CPBF, at which point you cap on foam.

 

[wobbly]

I had an issue with foaming using the CPBF that came with my WW unit and to reduce/stop foaming when bottling they recommend to have the fermented beer at close to 1 or 2C (bottles can be at ambient temp) and set/hold the pressure in the fermentation chamber at around 1.5 bar (20psi). If/when foaming becomes an issue increase the fermenter pressure to around 2 bar (28psi).

Following this practice I have no or very very few issues with foaming and there is no great rush to get the bottle off the CPBF and a cap on it

Cheers

Wobbly

 

[good4whatAlesU]

thanks Gents,
True there is very little foaming while the bottles are filling. - even with the beer at 2C at the bottles at 18C
The froth comes from pulling the bottle off the bung.
I feel this "release" would be more gentle at 5psi than 13psi, but concerned that dropping a keg to 5PSI for an hour of bottling time would lead t the bottles at the end losing carbination.
I'm going t try it this weekend at 5PSI.

Yep agree pulling out the bung is the tricky bit, I find that it works best if you do it slowly and wiggle it out gently.It does get a bit messy though. Am doing a couple dozen this week too.