Cooper's "New Style" Fermenters

[TwoCrows]

The phosphoric acid I have used is 96% and I bought it from KL, I believe they sell 85% now.
I personal didn't use the KK as it was one more part to wash, the Krausen scum line is easily cleaned when moist. I did not like to disturb the C02 blanket on the beer. Air after the start of fermentation is frowned upon.

 

[lost at sea]

you have an infection in both those fermenters and taps, throw them away. fermenters are cheap and your wasted time brewing is not. give em the heave-ho, buy some new ones and brew on.

 

[philrob]

I agree with lost at sea. For the price of a new fermenter you will have peace of mind.

 

[Paleman]

I have one but I can't put 6 FVs in it.

You have 6 fermenters going at once?

 

[livo]

you have an infection in both those fermenters and taps, throw them away. fermenters are cheap and your wasted time brewing is not. give em the heave-ho, buy some new ones and brew on.

I have given them a cleaning and sterilisation soak over a 3 day period that only a super bug could survive. 1 more try with 1/2 brew in each, then I'll try new taps at $6 each before I ditch them. If I do get 2 new FVs, they won't be Coopers again anyway. My generic lidded buckets are over 20 years old.

 

[livo]

You have 6 fermenters going at once?

Yep.

The phosphoric acid I have used is 96% and I bought it from KL, I believe they sell 85% now.
I personal didn't use the KK as it was one more part to wash, the Krausen scum line is easily cleaned when moist. I did not like to disturb the C02 blanket on the beer. Air after the start of fermentation is frowned upon.

I'm still not understanding how you use 96% H3PO4. Do you use gloves and wipe it all over and immersion soak small parts, or do you dilute it? What dilution ratio? I have Hy-Gen pH Down, which is 85% food grade orthophosphoric acid.

Even when I did originally use the KK, I never used to remove it. Once I realised I never had high enough scum ring, I stopped using them for the reason you state. Just another part to clean.

 

[TwoCrows]

Here is the link to KL phosphoric acid
https://www.kegland.com.au/products/pure-phosphoric-acid-85-500ml
At the start of brew day I soak and pump the Phos Acid on all parts and vessels that I will use. Then I just start the day as per normal.
It is probably not needed but it kills germs from storage on parts you cannot see, I have had a cockroach in the pump, and this go him out.
I just mix up 4 ltrs of water and 2ml of Phos acid, move it all about then dump and go from there. I dont ever rinse.

 

[Eddy Monsoon]

What are any consequences if you make the mix stronger than instructed ? (less dilute)

 

[eldertaco]

What are any consequences if you make the mix stronger than instructed ? (less dilute)

You'll run out of acid sooner.

 

[livo]

Thank you 2 crows. I have it. I'll use it. I'll get more when I run out. Buy it at your local hydroponic shop if it's cheaper than other places.

 

[livo]

You'll run out of acid sooner.

The cockroaches will run faster, or not at all.

 

[livo]

You have 6 fermenters going at once?

Doesn't everyone? Am I doing something wrong?

 

[Paleman]

Doesn't everyone? Am I doing something wrong?

Im not saying unheard of, but first time I've heard of a home brewer that has six on the go at once.
Two, maybe three............but six ??

 

[lost at sea]

i used the coopers fermenters for years. they are good imo, no KK.

once an infection gets in, you will have a hard time removing it....for $50 a pop. just replace it, not worth the drama trying to save them.

 

[livo]

I make 2 brews at a time and stagger them so I don't have to bottle huge amounts in one go. I also make 2 at a time for a mate who can't do it himself. This can see 6 FVs on the go at the same time, but sometimes there are only 2. I also make Apple Cider and Ginger Beer so they aren't always full of beer. I very rarely have nothing running, although it does happen occasionally.

With these 2 FVs, I've given them 48 hours each of soaking in diluted, acidified bleach solution and the taps have been in much stronger solution. Today I'll rinse them and use Starsan before mixing up a cheap brew with WW Home brand can, to test if they're clean or not. Decision pending the result.

Edit: Another thing I've just noticed with these infected brew batches. My usual bottle cleaning procedure hasn't worked on the bottles this beer was in. I just went to sanitise them in order to bottle the good batches (2 out of the 4 in the good FVs). Before I started, I noticed a bottle that appeared to have hundreds of little pinhead sized dots up on the inside, up the walls.

Normally the bottle conditioning yeast drops to the bottom and is easily rinsed out after emptying. I've never seen this before. Almost every bottle recently emptied had the same "growth" attached to the walls. It required the bottle brush to remove which I did in clean warm water with added bottle wash powder. It came off easily with the brush, but simple agitation did not dissolve or remove it.

I'm not going to risk using them immediately, so they are now soaking in the acidified bleach water.

 

[livo]

Apologies for going AWOL. I have just yesterday put 2 cheap tins of WW Home Brand in these 2 FV's. I will inform of the outcome.

 

[livo]

Disappointment, but not all bad (still hopeful, maybe). If you had told me that the cleaning and sanitisation I put these 2 FVs through wouldn't work, I wouldn't have believed you. Well, actually, some of you did tell me and I didn't believe you. Go on, say it. I told you so!

Today is day 8 (counting brew day). I tested the SG of these on day 6 and decided to let them go till today. On Thursday afternoon, 36 hours ago, these were clear on the top and tasted fine, so I thought, I'd won. I attach photos of the 2 FVs today. It's back, however they don't taste like anything other than cheap WW Home Brand beer. At this stage there are no "off" flavours.

As I've had the first few of these still tasting "OK", and drinkable, I'm going to go ahead and bottle it. I drained the last 2 brews as it was clearly infected prior to bottling and tasted like vinegar. I'm bottling these just to see if any "off" flavours develop in the bottles.

However, the problem persists. Next step will be to replace the taps at minimal cost. If that doesn't work, I will be tossing them, unless someone has any idea of what might work.

Many years ago, I had an FV that just would not come clean and I did eventually toss it.

PS: I just read on another site, a comment regarding a photo the same as mine, that the FV is now trash (America obviously). These infections love plastic, is how the guy put it. He advised that the infection will continue reoccurring.

 

[livo]

OK, so I've ordered 2 new taps and they're on the way.

However, after reading this yet again (just to check my volumes) I would still have to ask where is this infection coming from? Considering I've now used this as well as StellarSan, how can I still be getting infections in only these 2 FVs? If it isn't the taps, I have to question the viability of non-airlocked FVs because they are clean when I start.

I've just put 2 brews of brown ale in using my old bucket FV's. Let's see if I get infection in these. I'm predicting I won't.

 

[TwoCrows]

I would be also checking all your other equipment. Jugs, spoons anything with threads and blind corners. Hose that you use, all of these things will contribute to your infection.

 

[livo]

I would be also checking all your other equipment. Jugs, spoons anything with threads and blind corners. Hose that you use, all of these things will contribute to your infection.

But not repeatedly on only 2 out of 6 FVs. If all other aspects of my preparations, equipment and procedures are common to 6 FVs, and the problem of infection repeatedly occurs only with the 2 in question, it is clear that the problem is those FVs. If I have an infection on a spoon, or a bacterial problem with my water, the infection would occur in every brew. It does not.