Control Boxes

[schooey]

I've created a monster!

 

[kirem]

I've created a monster!

Monster mash....Sorry bad joke.

 

[pokolbinguy]

Good to see more brewers jumping at such a good deal.

Now to cut some holes in mine and get my leco mate to do a bundle of wiring for me

 

[bugwan]

Sixty bucks each...! Email sent to Tim.
It's been a big month for the Bugwan Brewery - march pump, Monster Mill, now this...! If only the wife knew!

Pok, please keep us informed on your progress if you have time. I love watching an electrical masterpiece come together...! Although I'll get a sparky to do any 240V work, I'm always interested in other set ups.

Cheers,
Dave

 

[pokolbinguy]

Pok, please keep us informed on your progress if you have time. I love watching an electrical masterpiece come together...! Although I'll get a sparky to do any 240V work, I'm always interested in other set ups.

No prob Dave will keep all posted. Going to get a good mate (Who is a sparky) to come and look at m setup and tell me what I need to buy to wire it all up safely, then once I have the stuff get him to do it for me or check over anything that I might do. Don't want to burn the house down on the maiden brew now do I.

Pok

 

[lokpikn]

I sent some money to Tim today for my control box. I wont be using it for a while but it seemed like a good price so i grabbed it. Well now it seems that making my setup more auto mated will come earlier than i thought.

EXCELLENT

 

[Fatgodzilla]

I sent some money to Tim today for my control box. I wont be using it for a while but it seemed like a good price so i grabbed it. Well now it seems that making my setup more auto mated will come earlier than i thought.

EXCELLENT

Can I now say I've just read this whole thread and enjoyed it thoroughly and don't have a bloody clue what it was about. I'm very impressed with the technical and other knowledge some of you blokes have, but fair dinkum, you lost me early. And to think I got excited I got a new thermometer ! Drink on dudes :icon_cheers:

 

[zedford]

some pictures of the drums refered to above can be found here http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...showtopic=23533

 

[gibbocore]

hey guy's, sorry to exhume an old thread, but i take it massive curcuits with SSR's and the like aren't entireley required, and i'll get away with a few switches for elements and pumps and the like right?

 

[pokolbinguy]

hey guy's, sorry to exhume an old thread, but i take it massive curcuits with SSR's and the like aren't entireley required, and i'll get away with a few switches for elements and pumps and the like right?

Not knowing what the heck you mean by "massive curcuits with SSR's" my answer would be....no you do not need it.

 

[gibbocore]

haha, SSR = solid state relays.

and

that's good..haha

 

[reg]

hey guy's, sorry to exhume an old thread, but i take it massive curcuits with SSR's and the like aren't entireley required, and i'll get away with a few switches for elements and pumps and the like right?

Provided any switches are rated at the appropriate amps.
For continued running of higher ampage stuff eg 2400watt elements, I would suggest running it through a relay of some sort.
This will prolong the life of your switches.

 

[Barramundi]

Provided any switches are rated at the appropriate amps.
For continued running of higher ampage stuff eg 2400watt elements, I would suggest running it through a relay of some sort.
This will prolong the life of your switches.

and more importantly prolong the life of your temperature controllers which usually arent cheap...

 

[LethalCorpse]

Provided any switches are rated at the appropriate amps.
For continued running of higher ampage stuff eg 2400watt elements, I would suggest running it through a relay of some sort.
This will prolong the life of your switches.

Doesn't matter which you use so long as they're rated for the load - 10A+ in the case of 2400W elephants. A relay isn't any less likely to fail than a switch is.

It doesn't prolong the life of your temp controllers either. As far as the controller is concerned a relay or a switch is exactly the same. Using a relay with a lower rated switch just increases the degree of complexity and adds potential points of failure.

SSRs will last longer than mechanical relays or switches, but like you said, you can get by without them.

 

[reg]

Doesn't matter which you use so long as they're rated for the load - 10A+ in the case of 2400W elephants. A relay isn't any less likely to fail than a switch is.

SSRs will last longer than mechanical relays or switches, but like you said, you can get by without them.

I beg to differ about switching a 10 amp load through a 10amp switch.

It is much better and safer over a longer period to switch a relay coil than to switch at the max rating of 10amps and have that continually running through your switch.
This is why it happens in industrial and commercial applications.
You would dramatically reduce the likely hood of failure of your switch if you run your 10 amps through a relay.
But this is only my opinion.

 

[LethalCorpse]

Fair enough, that's your opinion. Do you have a reason behind that opinion? A mechanical relay's contacts are the same as a switch's contacts. Different switches have varying cycle ratings, as do different relays, but they're comparable spreads. All other things being equal, there's no reason a 10A relay will last any longer than a 10A switch. There's no reason either of them will fail in the life of most of the other brewery components either.

 

[reg]

Fair enough, that's your opinion. Do you have a reason behind that opinion? A mechanical relay's contacts are the same as a switch's contacts. Different switches have varying cycle ratings, as do different relays, but they're comparable spreads. All other things being equal, there's no reason a 10A relay will last any longer than a 10A switch. There's no reason either of them will fail in the life of most of the other brewery components either.

I suppose when I hear the word switch I think of domestic 10a switches.
You know after installing an IXL tastic in a bathroom and you turn on the heat lamps and the switch makes a noise as it makes contact.
If it was my brewery I would just feel more comfortable with the bigger loads going through contactors or relays and using your switches to switch the coils.
Also for ease of wiring if you have an enclosure with your switches on the doors then you can wire up through din mouted relays and then only have to bring your switch wires to the door. Say 2 wires instead of 4 or 6 depending upon the switches you use. Makes for neater wiring and easier fault finding if need be later on.

But each to their own, we all have our little idisynch's. :icon_cheers:

Edit: spelling

 

[grod5]

My head hurts, is this still about beer?

daniel

 

[Barramundi]

It doesn't prolong the life of your temp controllers either.

i have a controller that is only rated to switch 8 amps , the advice ive been given by several qualified industrial electricians is that 8 amps wont last too long switching a 2400w element , hence my reasoning for the comment on controllers and using a relay to protect them ....

 

[LethalCorpse]

Dead right, Barramundi, but that doesn't mean that all controllers need output relays to protect them. The same would be true of any controller, switch, microcontroller computer or relay which was controlling a load with greater power requirements (voltage and/or current) than it was rated to supply. In your case, the controller provides the right voltage, but its current rating is only 8A for a load of 10A. Of course you need an output relay.

Reg, I'm afraid the idiosyncrasies you're referring to are just that - idiosyncratic. Engineers and sparkies don't (or at least shouldn't) design anything to be more complex than it needs to be to adequately meet the requirements. Most of them need some work in not overspecifying the requirements, but anyway... If you've got a 10A switch controlling 400-600W worth of heat lamps and it's arcing excessively, then you need a new switch. A relay would probably also solve the problem, but so what? A 1000A contactor would solve the problem too, but neither the contactor nor the relay is necessary when a new switch will work just as well. The relay's contact behave in exactly the same way as the switch's contacts, are rated to the same load, which is at least 4x the load required. It just means you've got a faulty switch, and you could just as easily have got a faulty relay, though you wouldn't have heard it arcing up in the roof.

Your comment about having to run less wires to the switch has some merit if you're talking about a 20m run, but is cancelled by the added complexity, cost and failure modes if you're talking about a foot to a door. You can get four wires there as easily as two.

As an aside, a contactor is a different beast entirely. It's a special kind of relay designed to suppress the arcs which occur when breaking very high voltage or current, particularly with inductive loads (like transformers or motors). We're talking about much much bigger loads than 2400W elements though. For this application you can pretty much completely deal with arcing by using a switch or relay which is well overrated for the load (15-20A switches are ideal) and even if you have to replace it every few years, you're still spending much less than a contactor.
My own solution will be a microcontroller driving some fat SSRs, but then I've specced my requirements rather higher than most (I did say it's a weakness). Answering gibbocore's question again, yes you can just use switches to control pumps and heater elements. If you're using switches rated to the load (I like the 15A illuminated rockers) you get zero benefit from adding relays as well.