Continuing Rant Thread - Get it Off Ya Chest here

[Mardoo]

So, you know, just who are we pleasing with all this mumbo jumbo Cert III (and otherwise) shit?? I know there need to be some controls, but when it comes down to copying shit from a book in order to pass (having tried independent thinking and been unreasonably knocked back) WHO are we pleasing, and do they have any...ANY experience at all in the execution of the duties proscribed? I'm more than happy to learn from folks who know, but to kowtow to folks who can barely write a test...**** off! Is this what human intelligence and potential has come down to? Twenty-three year-olds writing tests that please the government requirements with zero actual real-world experience, because they went through the program? If that's the case, time to **** some shit up, I reckon.

 

[bradsbrew]

So, you know, just who are we pleasing with all this mumbo jumbo Cert III (and otherwise) shit?? I know there need to be some controls, but when it comes down to copying shit from a book in order to pass (having tried independent thinking and been unreasonably knocked back) WHO are we pleasing, and do they have any...ANY experience at all in the execution of the duties proscribed? I'm more than happy to learn from folks who know, but to kowtow to folks who can barely write a test...**** off! Is this what human intelligence and potential has come down to? Twenty-three year-olds writing tests that please the government requirements with zero actual real-world experience, because they went through the program? If that's the case, time to **** some shit up, I reckon.

Nailed it, these mobs are writing assessments against performance criteria as a mapping exercise so they can demonstrate to the so called regulators that they are compliant. I started a diploma in management with one of these mobs to prove a point. For the first unit of competency, I went straight to training.gov, copied the content of the performance criteria and scope and pasted it directly to the assignment/assessment. Received back a glowing response from the "trainer", I then told them what I had done and asked for a refund.
A lot of these RPL mobs are just information collection agencies that send your info off to third parties for assessment and issuance of the qual. Australian quals are a disgrace at the moment.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Nailed it, these mobs are writing assessments against performance criteria as a mapping exercise so they can demonstrate to the so called regulators that they are compliant. I started a diploma in management with one of these mobs to prove a point. For the first unit of competency, I went straight to training.gov, copied the content of the performance criteria and scope and pasted it directly to the assignment/assessment. Received back a glowing response from the "trainer", I then told them what I had done and asked for a refund.
A lot of these RPL mobs are just information collection agencies that send your info off to third parties for assessment and issuance of the qual. Australian quals are a disgrace at the moment.

Sure are...complete ******* joke. You no longer get trained, just certified

 

[Mardoo]

So true.

 

[Cerveja]

True story. High school students in QLD need 20 points to get their leaving certificate (QCE). They gain these by passing a minimum of 5 subjects for 2 years. However, they can get 8 points straight up by completing a Cert III in whatever that is simply a tick and flick exercise that my 8 year old could do. Correct, it's the equivalent of studying and passing an approved subject for 2 years and I know of one course they can complete in days. In fact, students at risk of not getting their QCE are quickly enrolled in said course. Not a good look for high schools to have students exiting without a piece of paper. No matter that they are either not capable or too lazy to think.

 

[Cerveja]

And when I say tick and flick I mean all assessment is open book and if they fail they get to keep doing the assessment until they pass. Big $$$ in it for the providers of the courses.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

My Uncle quit TAFE because of exactly this. Was all about passing students to the point that they didnt have to know how to do anything. The rule was that if students failed it reflected badly on the teachers ie " You dont know how to teach ".... My uncle is a master carpenter and he basically had to pass 2nd yr apprentices who didnt know how to sharpen a chisel.....true story

He said **** the lot of you and just walked out of teaching

 

[Danscraftbeer]

Like the way they sell Licenses to drive cars! more and more. The wheels of progress! Keep them turning etc.
There seems a shitload of people driving cars cant drive effectively, sensibly. Like in a coordinated way with the rest of the population.
Then that becomes the common. Aughh. Only way I survive on the roads is being aware of the reality. Its not cynical when its real.

Then brings the point that cars have to be driverless because in 20 years people will be so dumbed down that they cant even be trusted to drive a car themselves!

 

[wynnum1]

My Uncle quit TAFE because of exactly this. Was all about passing students to the point that they didnt have to know how to do anything. The rule was that if students failed it reflected badly on the teachers ie " You dont know how to teach ".... My uncle is a master carpenter and he basically had to pass 2nd yr apprentices who didnt know how to sharpen a chisel.....true story

He said **** the lot of you and just walked out of teaching

Does a carpenter use a chisel from what i have seen on how houses are built now its all a pile of shit delivered on a truck and tacked together with a nail gun a few screws and bolts

 

[Mardoo]

By folks supplied by the equivalent "learning" factories. It's because our main value now is money, across the board.

 

[Grott]

Does a carpenter use a chisel from what i have seen on how houses are built now its all a pile of shit delivered on a truck and tacked together with a nail gun a few screws and bolts

Spot on. There is a town house being built down the road, the frame work is made of untreated pine (age by the delivery time from the timber mill to job site) that has been exposed to rain for over a week as it stands, "nailed gunned" and "squared up" using metal straps. Now we must clad this timber framework to ensure the moisture is trapped within the wall. Bloody joke and they charge the world for it!

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

Does a carpenter use a chisel from what i have seen on how houses are built now its all a pile of shit delivered on a truck and tacked together with a nail gun a few screws and bolts

He was teaching apprentice builders that couldnt use a ******* hand saw because they have never had to....what does that tell you

 

[technobabble66]

For one thing, it tells me everyone else is too stupid to know a shit job when they see one. The number of times I've seen people look at a house (to buy) or the work a chippie's done and have absolutely NFI it's shithouse is unbelievable.
The chippies/builders can only get away with it if the people paying for don't understand the difference between a good and a bad job.

 

[wynnum1]

Australia has standards if you want to check the standard have to pay money to buy a copy had a look at one for roads cost $240 for 60 odd pages and if you look at the law refers to the standard you would think they would put a copy of text from the standard in with the law total bullshit.

 

[Black Devil Dog]

I would have thought that the job of an instructor was to instruct. In this case, instruct young blokes how to use a chisel.

Of course carpenters still use chisels. Sure, when nailing frames they don't need a chisel.
(You'll never hear a chippie say, Hey Robbo, pass the chisel, I need it to nail this frame together).

But if you wan't to fit hinges, handles, locks, latches, striker plates, notch out posts and beams, build stairs, make mortice and tenon joins etc, you definitely need to use a chisel.

For what it's worth, as someone who actually works in the industry, a lot of carpenters are very good at their job and take pride in their work.

 

[Grott]

For what it's worth, as someone who actually works in the industry, a lot of carpenters are very good at their job and take pride in their work.

You have a point to some degree, in the building industry, in most cases they can only work with what is supplied whether good or crap.

 

[wynnum1]

When they built the house next door and doing work inside they did not speak English.

 

[Black Devil Dog]

Most of what the carpenters do is not visible when a house is finished, so I'm not sure how anyone without any building knowledge would even know what's been done, whether good or bad.
The exception being decks, doors, architraves, timber flooring, pergolas etc.

Things like stair building and timber flooring are quite a specialised aspect of the trade.

No one will ever see things like framing, lintels, tie down rods, wall frame bracing, trusses, joist hangers, roof bracing etc. These are the things that really hold a house together and it's unlikely any one would know they're there, but they will be.

Non English speaking people can also build houses.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

I would have thought that the job of an instructor was to instruct. In this case, instruct young blokes how to use a chisel.

.

The problem is, they change the curriculum so you dont get taught the old school ways. Just go to Bunninks and buy it pre made

 

[Black Devil Dog]

The basics of building haven't really changed that much in the last 40 years or so, so not sure why the curriculum would.

There are better tools, better materials, better systems and some changes to building codes, so the training would need to adjust to meet those changes.

Other than pre-made kitchens, I'm not sure what else you can buy from Bunnings pre-made, that goes into building a house.