Commercial operators

[Bonnie&Clydes]

Hi!

Ive enjoyed coming here for a while now but have not yet posted.

I have a pizzeria in Horsham with a 12 tap HYBRID glycol & icebank system (diy upgrade ill post about it later)
I notice a lack of commercial operators here and I see an opportunity to talk to consumers that share a passion for good beer like me.

I have been trying to introduce good, independent craft beers since opening 6 years ago but being a largish country town the big breweries have quite the hold. I can only provide and recommend options to a point, without having the customer asking for rubbish. And without then affecting income within that part of the business.
Bar sales for me is probably 5% or lower i have quite a large pizzeria. But it has become quite a passion/hobby for me so I like to devote time to it.

Anyhoo, Im Dan. I hope some of you here have maybe already been to my place. But otherwise i look forward to contributing here. Annnd heres to good beer!

 

[Beamer]

Welcome to the forum,
I love seeing more craft beers in restaurants especially a pizzeria, who doesn't love draught beer and pizza.

Good luck with getting more craft beer into your establishment.

Cheers,

Beamer
.

 

[MHB]

When your living depends on sales you will have to be a little more cautious. We might all like challenging craft beers but if Craft has 10% of the market that means 90% of your customers just don't get it.

Based on talking to a couple of local brewers and restaurateurs about just this subject
I think you will need what I have heard called a change over beer - something enjoyable but not too confronting for the masses, think Coopers Pale Ale (which wouldn't be a bad call).
For one tap something with good flavour but sessionable, if you were in Newcastle I could suggest a local Kölsch or American Wheat that would fit the bill.
For the other tap perhaps a little bigger, the obvious being an APA, something like Little Creatures used to be.
Although I like black beers they are probably something better made available in bottles - pretty poor market acceptance - along with a small range of interesting local and/or import beers.

Good to see someone taking good beer out to the market - just don't scare the horses
Mark

 

[earle]

Welcome to the forum. Sounds like you're trying to do a good thing in terms of beer.

Agreed that you'll still need some boring bland mega-lager for the uninitiated. I was in a local craft bar last week and a bloke came and asked for a beer - didn't care what it was - that's why the still have a Peroni Legera tap.

The following is definitely not meant as a criticism of your restaurant as I've never been there - it's more some general observations on restaurants and beer/alcohol. I've had some clients who are franchisees in a large national restaurant chain. For them 5% of sales from the bar would be well on the low side, but I do realise this can vary widely. Whenever I've eaten at any of their establishments the wait staff frequently check in to see that everythings ok and if any more drinks are needed. I was at a licenced pizza place here in Toowoomba last night and after the first round of drinks we had trouble getting the attention of the wait staff to get any further drinks - it's not that they were run off their feet. I've also had a similar experience at other restaurants and can't really understand it. I'm happy to be corrected but I was of the impression that margins on beverages were quite good but even if they were the same as the margin on food shouldn't these businesses be offering more to their customers and increasing their sales. As a customer I would be more satisfied with the overall experience if I didn't have to spend 5 minutes trying to get the wait staff attention so I can get a drink. Maybe I should have posted this in the rant thread.

Good luck with it

 

[Bribie G]

Being just over the border from SA I'm sure the Coopers Rep would love to drop in for a yarn. As Mark says, Coopers would be an ideal gateway beer and no doubt familiar to most of the punters.

 

[manticle]

There's great beer that isn't 'craft' in the modern vague sense of it.

Something like a trumer or weihenstephaner pils.
4 pines for decent AU made apa or stone and wood pacific (not my favourite but a good gateway).

 

[Coodgee]

For mine you can't just quietly put a craft beer or two on tap. You've got to support it with marketing. Run a"beers of the world" night or do a special food and beer matching night. Serve it in a different style of glass etc. Then it's less about the flavor and more about the novelty. Once they get a taste they might not look back. Imagine the profit on craft beer would be slightly higher too.

 

[Beamer]

I work in a restaurant where we only stock 3 non craft beers (teds, light, corona) and as what Coodgee has said some just buy the craft for the novelty, even if just the name such as rudeboy or my wifes bitter. We do only stock bottles though and also put on beer specials which seem to move quiet well.
Although I should point out our client base is a little bit more experimental as we are one of the few foodie establishment in a town with a majority of pub meals and fish chips.

 

[Markbeer]

I think any restaurant must remember that the end of the day they are selling food and drinks, so the sales approach and marketing is important. Special nights as mentioned above.

But ask a customer if they want to try any of the beers and give a 30ml sample. I see this used time and again and a beer is found that is enjoyable.

If you have 5 beers or more on tap, tasting paddles are a great way of introducing beer. A little more work but very effective in the craft beer movement.

 

[Bonnie&Clydes]

Thanks for the welcome guys.

For them 5% of sales from the bar would be well on the low side, but I do realise this can vary widely.

I'm happy to be corrected but I was of the impression that margins on beverages were quite good but even if they were the same as the margin on food shouldn't these businesses be offering more to their customers and increasing their sales. As a customer I would be more satisfied with the overall experience if I didn't have to spend 5 minutes trying to get the wait staff attention so I can get a drink. Maybe I should have posted this in the rant thread.

Good luck with it

Without explaining every in and out of my business, I call Restaurant sales as about 30%. To gain perspective I employ 35 staff and run 7 Delivery cars on weekends. Im not trying to sound like a gloating ****, but the place doesnt revolve around the restaurant. Totally understand frustration when you cant get staffs attention for more booze, but it isnt any reason for 5% of sales. BTW margins on beverages are always great, basically, you should be charging double for what you paid for it.

Being just over the border from SA I'm sure the Coopers Rep would love to drop in for a yarn. As Mark says, Coopers would be an ideal gateway beer and no doubt familiar to most of the punters.

Tried Coopers! We get a lot South Australian travelling through but it didnt move that well. Mind you this was a few years ago and it might be worth another go.

There's great beer that isn't 'craft' in the modern vague sense of it.

Something like a trumer or weihenstephaner pils.
4 pines for decent AU made apa or stone and wood pacific (not my favourite but a good gateway).

Gateway beers is the best approach ive done. S&W Pacific wouldnt supply me kegs however - too big, too fast.

I'd love your opinions on what I'm currently pouring. Heres what I have in order on the taps including cider & wine.

Prickly Moses Spotted Ale - Great gateway beer
Little Creatures Furphy - Whenever a Dry is asked, this is offered as something 'a little' different to try.
Carlton Draught
White Rabbit Dark Ale - Moves well in Winter
Little Creatures IPA
Carlton Dry
Harcourt Apple Cider
Little Creatures Pale Ale
Canadian Club & Dry
XXXX
Squealing Pig Sauv Blanc
Innocent Bystander Moscato

 

[manticle]

I'd be happy with that list as a punter. Some decent offerings, something familiar for mates.

 

[Bribie G]

The White rabbit is a great choice, would hit the spot with people who like a dark ale such as Toohey's Old, but apart from the pretty dreadful Carlton Black there's not much dark ale around in Vic.

 

[Bonnie&Clydes]

I would love to pour pirate life brewing. I had one of their brewers come by and we got chatting about their operation in Adelaide. He liked my range so i did feel i bit chuffed on that one.

Also ive thought about approaching Holgates as I grew up near Woodend.

Any thoughts on what you would remove to put these on? Or leave as is? Keeping in mind everything sells steadily.

Or for a better question, if it were your place, what would you have?

 

[manticle]

I'd take out Carlton dry for a holgate. You've still got Carlton Draught and xxxx for mainstream aussie lager and if you haven't already, you get get some bottled Toohey's extra dry for people who enjoy the clean crisp taste of watery nothing.

 

[Mardoo]

Another good local Brewer (Echuca), Bandicoot's Barbed Wire Blonde is one of the best gateway beers I've had. Never thought I'd much like a blonde, but theirs is fantastic, lots of flavour, not hop heavy and easy drinking. Not sure whether you can get it out your way. They've also come out with lots of new stuff I haven't had a chance to try.

 

[earle]

Thanks for the welcome guys.
Without explaining every in and out of my business, I call Restaurant sales as about 30%. To gain perspective I employ 35 staff and run 7 Delivery cars on weekends. Im not trying to sound like a gloating ****, but the place doesnt revolve around the restaurant. Totally understand frustration when you cant get staffs attention for more booze, but it isnt any reason for 5% of sales. BTW margins on beverages are always great, basically, you should be charging double for what you paid for it.

Sounds like you are doing well. If beverage is compared to just your restaurant sales then its a much higher proportion, and then directly comparable to the clients I mentioned.

The line up looks good to me. If I went to a restaurant and they had something like that I would be quite pleased.

 

[technobabble66]

I'd take out Carlton dry for a holgate. You've still got Carlton Draught and xxxx for mainstream aussie lager and if you haven't already, you get get some bottled Toohey's extra dry for people who enjoy the clean crisp taste of watery nothing.

+1 to this.
When i read through, the Carlton dry seemed to be the obvious extra slot. Obviously depends on your sales, though. If you're currently selling a fair bit, maybe keep it for the cash flow.

I'd suggest maybe a Red ale or UK bitter/ESB. There's a few around from Victoria/Australia these days. Bridge Road Brewers Celtic Red, maybe.
Another option might be Mountain Goat Steam Ale. It's another gateway beer, somewhere between an APA & an aussie lager - some hoppiness but still pretty mild.



I assume those 2 wines are on tap, and you've got others by the bottle/glass on offer?
Does the Moscato sell reasonably ok?
If not, i'd replace it with a Pinot Noir, or maybe a Shiraz. I've no idea what actually sells best with reds, but for me, i find Pinot Noir is always a safe back-up if i'm not sure which bottle to get, or which variety to best go with a meal - a nice light-ish aussie/NZ berry flavours with little risk of any harshness & ~ goes with everything. And almost anything from Mornington Peninsula, Tassie, or NZ seems decent above $15.
I probably prefer a good Shiraz (esp Heathcote & Barossa) for the solid depth, but i find it a bit more risky picking a good one from an harsh bad one.

Edit: Matilda Bay Fat Yak is also everywhere - so you could see it as either: everyone else has it so you want something different; or its another "gateway" beer that the masses might be ok with if they're not quite up to an IPA yet.

 

[TheWiggman]

I'll start by saying there is nowhere within 45 mins of my town that has a range like that and I wish ANY of the clubs/pubs in town had half that selection.

At present Dry seems to be in vogue. VB has been phased out down south for Draught, and CUB's offerings are typically Draught, Dry and Bulmer's. Most pubs I go to have them and XXXX Gold (not bitter unfortunately) and when asking for a 'beer' most Victorians are either Dry or Draught drinkers. And fickle as such. I ran into a mate at the pub last week who was drinking Dry from a stubbie because he didn't reckon it was good on tap there. Great Northern seems to be encroaching on pubs locally which has me baffled, but enough blokes drink it.

It pains me to say it but in my opinion I'd leave Dry on tap in favour of Furphy. Or at the least have it bottled so the option's there. Personally I'm like MHB in that I love me a good stout or dark beer, but the market's probably not there. IPAs seem to be the 'trendy' craft beer to drink at present, with the Aussie options probably being a tamer and more appealing drop to the masses than the US West Coast 7% variety. Bridge Roads make a very approachable IPA 'Bling', as do Gage Roads with their Sleeping Giant. Otherwise a Euro pils like Weihenstephaner is a ripping beer that can be knocked back one after the other, unlike an IPA... for most of us. Unfortunately I can't really recommend a good Aussie craft lager, the big boys seem to do a better job.

 

[Bonnie&Clydes]

I'd take out Carlton dry for a holgate. You've still got Carlton Draught and xxxx for mainstream aussie lager and if you haven't already, you get get some bottled Toohey's extra dry for people who enjoy the clean crisp taste of watery nothing.

Thats also my thoughts too. Carlton Dry IS a tricky one however. Basically it holds strong in two regions, the Wimmera and Gippsland. Ive never seen it in Melbourne thats for sure - not that id buy it. XXXX could easily come off to I think on that note, those that only want that WILL opt for the stubby.

+1 to this.
When i read through, the Carlton dry seemed to be the obvious extra slot. Obviously depends on your sales, though. If you're currently selling a fair bit, maybe keep it for the cash flow.

I'd suggest maybe a Red ale or UK bitter/ESB. There's a few around from Victoria/Australia these days. Bridge Road Brewers Celtic Red, maybe.
Another option might be Mountain Goat Steam Ale. It's another gateway beer, somewhere between an APA & an aussie lager - some hoppiness but still pretty mild.



I assume those 2 wines are on tap, and you've got others by the bottle/glass on offer?
Does the Moscato sell reasonably ok?
If not, i'd replace it with a Pinot Noir, or maybe a Shiraz. I've no idea what actually sells best with reds, but for me, i find Pinot Noir is always a safe back-up if i'm not sure which bottle to get, or which variety to best go with a meal - a nice light-ish aussie/NZ berry flavours with little risk of any harshness & ~ goes with everything. And almost anything from Mornington Peninsula, Tassie, or NZ seems decent above $15.
I probably prefer a good Shiraz (esp Heathcote & Barossa) for the solid depth, but i find it a bit more risky picking a good one from an harsh bad one.

Edit: Matilda Bay Fat Yak is also everywhere - so you could see it as either: everyone else has it so you want something different; or its another "gateway" beer that the masses might be ok with if they're not quite up to an IPA yet.

To remove Carlton dry appears to be everyones opinion, to which I agree.

I have MGoat Steam Ale in stubs and is has its moments but I dont think it would move enough on tap.

Yeah I have a full wine list but I want to be on board with a whole 'wine-on-tap' movement. Its a point of difference that suits my establishment.
To run Red Wine on tap I need to use a seperate font because obviously it cant be chilled. That will be the next project!

I enjoy Fat Yak but ive figured as its an American Pale Ale, I already have Creatures Pale.

I sell A **** TON of Moscato so removing that wouldnt be wise.

 

[Mardoo]

That there is a world-class moscato. I did 10 years in the wine industry and rarely tasted one as good or better. Keep it for sure. No reason to trade out. You've already raised your customers' tastes