Cold brew coffee in stout

[ArgM]

Hey,

I'm planning on making my first oatmeal stout soon, gonna aim for lush, creamy, bit of chocolate and a bit of coffee.

I had the idea to use a cold brewed coffee like the Yirgacheffe, which is sweet, floral and slight berries/husk. The benefit of cold brew is that you are able to capture all these flavours and less acids, however, the flavour becomes much more delicate.

My plan is too add the coffee once the wort has cooled to pitching temp, to avoid the flavours being damaged. So, to the experienced stout brewers and coffee nuts, how much coffee should I add per litre of beer, should I avoid using hops in case they overbear the coffee? Also if someone could explain to me the difference in flavour between crystal and dark crystal malt?

 

[davedoran]

Hey ArgM,

Ive never tried with cold coffee so cant really report on that. I have just used coffee essence and was happy with the results. Would be interested to hear how it goes though. Only thing people maybe iffy about is adding to the cold wort and risking infection. I wonder if it could be added during bulk priming?

As regards the crystal malts. Difference is colour and taste.

Found this from another forum

Crystal Malt
Crystal malt is produced using a special malting process that allows some of the starches to be converted to simpler sugars (such as sucrose and maltose) inside the intact grain. These simple sugars are fermentable. However a significant percentage of more complex sugars remain intact and can add body, sweetness and mouth feel to a beer. These sugars also help with head-retention in the beer. Crystal malt is a good grain to start with if you’ve never used a specialty grain before. It has a fairly mild flavor, and will generally not overpower the final product.

It comes in different degrees Lovibond:

Crystal Malt 10° 1.033-35 Sweet, mild caramel flavor and a golden color. Use in light lagers and light ales.
Crystal Malt 20° 1.033-35 Sweet, mild caramel flavor and a golden color. Use in light lagers and light ales.
Crystal Malt 30° 1.033-35 Sweet, mild caramel flavor and a golden color. Use in light lagers and light ales.
Crystal Malt 40° 1.033-35 Sweet, mild caramel flavor and a golden color. Use in light lagers and light ales.
Crystal Malt 60° 1.033-35 Sweet caramel flavor, deep golden to red color. For dark amber and brown ales.
Crystal Malt 80° 1.033-35 Sweet, smooth caramel flavor and a red to deep red color. For porters, old ales.
Crystal Malt 90° 1.033-35 Pronounced caramel flavor and a red color. For stouts, porters and black beers.
Crystal Malt 120° 1.033-35 Pronounced caramel flavor and a red color. For stouts, porters and black beers.

and from how to brew

Caramel Malts (may be steeped or mashed)
Caramel Malts have undergone a special heat "stewing" process after the malting which crystallizes the sugars. These sugars are caramelized into longer chains that are not converted into simple sugars by the enzymes during the mash. This results in a more malty, caramel sweet, fuller tasting beer. These malts are used for almost all ale and higher gravity lager styles. Various crystal malts are often added in half pound amounts to a total of 5-25% of the grain bill for a 5 gallon batch.
Caramel 10 10 L This malt adds a light honey-like sweetness and some body to the finished beer.
Caramel 40 40 L The additional color and light caramel sweetness of this malt is perfect for pale ales and amber lagers.
Caramel 60 60 L This is the most commonly used caramel malt, also known as medium crystal. It is well suited for pale ales, English style bitters, porters and stouts. It adds a full caramel taste and body to the beer.
Caramel 80 80 L This malt is used for making reddish colored beers and gives a lightly bittersweet caramel flavor.
Caramel 120 120 L This malt adds a lot of color and bittersweet caramel flavor. Useful in small amounts to add complexity or in greater amounts for old ales, barleywines and doppelbocks.
Special B 220 L This unique Belgian malt has a roasted nutty-sweet flavor. Used in moderation (1/4-1/2 lb.), it is very good in brown ales, porter, and doppelbocks. Larger amounts, more than a half pound in a 5 gallon batch, will lend a plum-like flavor (which may be desired in a barleywine in small amounts).

 

[NewtownClown]

Add your coffee after fermentation has completed or at least when the krausen has dropped. Delicate flavour and aroma can be "scrubbed" out during fermentation. If you bulk prime, the coffee can be added to the priming solution.

As for hopping, I assume you want the coffee aroma and flavour to be the star, so omit any late additions and stick to bittering hops only (it's a stout anyway). Chocolate malt will add coffee flavour (chocolate refers to the appearance of the malt rather than the flavour), as does roast and black malts, too much may hide your coffee, just right will compliment it.
Personally, I prefer additions such as coffee, spices, fruit etc to be part of the flavour profile rather than to dominate. I find 500 ml of espresso shots in a 20 litre brew to fit in nicely with the other malts that also exhibit coffee characteristics.
If you want yours to be immediately recognised, go easy on the darker malts and increase the the amount of coffee. Perhaps, brew a porter with no roast barley or black malt and use Carafa Special in place. It is a de-bittered dark malt and won't add the roast bitterness you get from other black malts, your coffee can fill that space.

Oats are a great addition, with coffee, i find the mouthfeel they present to be reminiscent of the crema one finds on a good brew. I toast mine in the oven @ 150c for 15 to 20 mins to add a subtle nutty, biscuit flavour and use 400-500 grams for 20 litres.

There is another advantage to adding the coffee after the beer is finished. You can draw off a 200ml sample of the beer and add your coffee to the sample 5ml at a time until just right then scale that addition up to suit your batch size.

Now I need a Java hit....

 

[Topher]

ArgM, I'm in the coffee biz and cold brew is definitely the way to go. Just make sure the roast is pretty light. You don't want excess coffee oils in your beer.

I know a roaster who has brewed some coffee for a couple of breweries so ill give him a shout later about the quantities. Can't get a hold of him right now.

There was a brew a few years ago called long shot that used yirg, it was more of a dark lager from memory though.

I'm not sure any of the lighter flavours will get through a stout though, it would be nice though. Yirg is one of my favourite regions.

 

[ArgM]

Thanks for that Dave, really useful list! Yeah, I really wanna get that silky milk mouth feel like drinking a well made coffee!
I took a while to get into Yirg, still considering substituting a Colombian coffee, getting it from Code Black coffee in Brunswick, they roast on site and constantly cycle through different origins so might find something even better! Really want to get the floral in there, Im actually thinking adding some after the krausen has dropped as suggested and a bit more just before bottling.
As tempted as I am to give in and change to a porter or black lager as suggested, I think Im going to stick to a stout, it's the dream haha

So, I'm currently doing poor student Big W pot BIAB's, so for my 12l recipe I'm thinking:

1.5kg - Pale ale
0.5kg - Caramel 60L
0.5kg - Chocolate
0.2kg - Rolled oats (probably toast them slightly as suggested that nutty flavour would be great)

Mash at 68'c for 90 mins
Boil for 60
Hops - Target (will work out amount later, but not too much) @60
Additional: Small stick of cinnamon + vanilla (will work this out by eye) @20
Roughly 175g Yirgacheffe coffee (I think in about 1L of water, agitated infrequently in the fridge for 24hours) 1 day after pitching yeast

Estimated OG - 1.068 (pre coffee addition)
Estimated FG - 1.019
Alcohol - 6.45%

SRM - 40
ECB - 78.8

How does that look? Im basing it off rough numbers from my other brews, its my first recipe so I have no clue what it should look like exactly, or if some minor tweaks are needed.

Topher, do you do much coffee roasting? Im trying to talk my local into showing me one day haha

 

[ArgM]

Few changes:
Going to split the chocolate with a bit of crystal half/half and going to add half coffee in day after and another half when transferring into secondary so I can get an idea as to how much more it needs to balance etc

 

[Tex083]

Would be keen as to see how it turns out, the coffee from Code Black is great.

 

[ArgM]

Luckily live around the corner went in and asked about the roasting and met the apprentice roaster and he said they usually roast Mondays or Tuesday and Im welcome to come watch if I want... would be great to be part of an extra part of the process...

Im hoping it turns out well, I have a very clear distinct idea as to how I want it to be, so if I can get close Ill be happy haha

Probably just gonna go for it, and see how it turns out next week sometime,

Would be good to get some recipe feedback though, I have absolutely no clue!

 

[syl]

I am round the corner too, I get my coffee for the stove top there as well. Good stuff, particularly the C-002 (? IIRC). I recently met the roaster at a Balinese coffee roasters and it was great fun going through the process with them so you should definitely do it!

Then there's the extraction and each type of coffee is best suited for different types of extraction, so make sure it is fit to purpose, etc.

I am keen on the results as I will be looking to do something similar soon too to give to my barista in the city!

 

[ArgM]

Ah cool, locals everywhere! I haven't got a coffee from there I haven't liked... Haven't tried there food yet though.

Will definitely report back soon, I have a very different but dark beer at the moment in secondary I might trial with a bit of cold brew mixed in at bottling for one or two bottles to see how the flavour acts.
It was meant to be a dark mild and I think I over hopped it into black IPA so it may not be the best to taste it on

 

[mckenry]

I had a seriously good coffee ale the other day. The cold steeped coffee (overnight) was added at 15mL/L in the keg.

 

[ArgM]

Interesting, no clue as there coffee to water ratio during the overnight steep?

Where/how did the coffee come through? Also, how was it with the carbonation? I'm imagining very low carbonation

 

[Trevandjo]

ArgM, what yeast do you plan to use for this?

 

[fcmcg]

The long shot was brewed by Red Duck , based on a recipe from a Westgate brewer and brewed by 5 Westgaters as part of a Vic brew prize.
I was there when we brewed it.
The coffee was cold steeped overnight .I don't know the ratios but it was made like making a normal ground plunger coffee ratio..except that we had to upscale to allow for a 500litre brew.
The cold coffee was added prior to boil . This is because Red Duck have a fully closed boiler with a goose neck out the roof, so you can't access the boiler during the boil...
Not really helpful info I guess but just my experience ...
The other thing I have done is put some coffee grounds in a hop bag and then put that bag in my blichman hop rocket and use it as a Randall ....massive coffee hit , the first few pours ..nice..but not exactly balanced if your looking at it from a bjcp view lol

 

[Blitzer]

If you can't access the boiler during the boil.. how do they add hops....?

 

[ArgM]

I'm not 100% on this but most likely 11g of Danstar Nottingham Ale yeast.

Interesting, my reasoning for wanting to add the coffee post heat is to avoid losing the flavours that you get from the cold brewing process.

Do you know what grains they used? what do you think of the recipe Ive got up here?

 

[time01]

will be very interested to hear how this turns out ArgM

 

[Spiesy]

I'm not 100% on this but most likely 11g of Danstar Nottingham Ale yeast.

Interesting, my reasoning for wanting to add the coffee post heat is to avoid losing the flavours that you get from the cold brewing process.

Do you know what grains they used? what do you think of the recipe Ive got up here?

Notto is known for scrubbing flavours out. Maybe best to try WL004 or the Wyeast equivalent.

Sounds like you're going to quite an effort, would suck to lose those delicate flavours for the sake of a couple of dollars.

Mmm. Coffee. Mmm. Stout.

 

[mckenry]

Interesting, no clue as there coffee to water ratio during the overnight steep?

Where/how did the coffee come through? Also, how was it with the carbonation? I'm imagining very low carbonation

Sorry, no clue as to the steeping ratios. The coffee flavour was there in the aftertaste. Quite bizarre at first. The carbonation was just about a smidge on the low side of normal for a pale ale, but all their beers were on the low side I feel, which I prefer. So, no, not very low carb. Remember the cold steeped coffee was added to the keg and the beer was already carbed going into the keg.

 

[ArgM]

That's all good, coffee flavour in the aftertaste is exactly where I want it to come through!
Yeah, I'm a big fan of low carbonation too, favourite thing about going around England was the discovery of low carbonation beer!

Awesome, sounds like that adding during secondary and again during bottling is the best way to go with the bottling route!