Co2 In Confined Spaces

[the_fuzz]

:huh: Are you thinking of carbon monoxide alarms? They're not required by any building codes here, but they're a very good idea. At least once every winter there will be reports of a family found dead of carbon monoxide poisoning. Usually either the furnace has developed a leak or the chimney has collapsed. Or sometimes someone has either been gassed in their RV or their home because of a propane heater or propane BBQ.

I have a CO alarm. I've actually never heard of CO2 alarms. Could you post a link to one?

Jeeeez, I really should work a little harder - yes Carbon Monoxide alarms

Building codes in some states of the US require them in all new buildings - including NY

Stats that I have here show about 1000 people a year die from Carbon Monoxide poisoning in the US.

 

[newguy]

Jeeeez, I really should work a little harder - yes Carbon Monoxide alarms

Building codes in some states of the US require them in all new buildings - including NY

Stats that I have here show about 1000 people a year die from Carbon Monoxide poisoning in the US.

1000 per year sounds about right for the states. We don't lose that many here, but our population is a 10th of theirs. Another somewhat common source of CO poisoning is due to remote car starters and an attached garage. It's too bad that some people think that $30 is too much to spend for something that could save their lives.

Thanks to the other poster for posting a link to a CO2 detector. If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say that they're not cheap. Too bad.

 

[chovain]

I think a few people are missing a really important point here - Sure a 9kg bottle of liquid CO2 only makes 5 cubic metres of gas, but that is 100% pure gas. Sure CO2 does settle (its heavier than air) but that is only in a still environment - no such thing in a house, so mixing occurs.

Some levels of CO2 you should worry about:

1% (10,000 ppm) causes drowsiness with continuous exposure
2% is the normal threshold people can start to detect
3% normal breathing rate doubles (x2)
5% normal breathing rate quadruples (x4)
Levels above 5% are considered toxic

7-10% will cause unconsciousness in a few minutes (2-10mins according to the individual).

[...]

That's the kind of info I was after. I was also unsure of the extent to which CO2 will mix or settle.

My laundry is about 9cu.m. The slow leak scenario will probably give a highly concentrated mixture: there'd probably be lots of convection with the fridge in there, and a sky light shining down.

It seems to me that the burst valve scenario is less likely to result in a good mix. There's an extra 4.5cu.m. of gas that needs to escape under the door. I figure that's going to be mainly CO2, since the CO2 is being injected relatively close to ground level, and won't have had a chance to mix well. Does that seem reasonable? 4.5cu.m. mixed in with the rest of my apartment's air is relatively safe (just not for continuous exposure), so I just have the remaining CO2 to worry about. Even opening the laundry door seems likely to get the levels down enough (and no-one is ever going to be in the laundry with the door closed).

So anyone know where to get CO2 alarms that won't cost an arm and a leg?

 

[newguy]

Wikipedia Link. Unfortunately the sensor alone will cost at least $100US, if not more. A canary or budgie will be cheaper.

 

[chovain]

Wikipedia Link. Unfortunately the sensor alone will cost at least $100US, if not more. A canary or budgie will be cheaper.

I'd probably consider getting one for USD 100. It sure beats GBP 230 for a CellarSafe (or AUD 1500 from a local distributor I've seen!)

 

[Jazzafish]

CO2 ....REPLACES>>>OXYGEN......
SNIFF IT >>>>TA TA....
PJ

I'm not sure about CO2 replacing oxygen. It is heavier and will push oxygen up higher.

It also takes alot more than than a sniff to kill you... I have seen a bloke inhale Co2from a hose in a brewery... think he was pretending it was a smokers pipe as we were confirming a filter was purged. He didn't realise what it was and couldn't be stopped before he did it. He got a lungfull and coughed like a chain smoker for a bit. Was a little light headed but fine after a few mins.

Co2 is detectable to smell. You can pick it up smelling a fermenting beer, or a freshly purged keg/line/filter. It reminds me of vinegar, but different in its own Co2 way. It also has a burning sensation in low amounts... but I'd hate to feel it like that bloke did.

I would be worried...
i believe co2 is heavier than air? so it will sit in the lowest parts and not dilute?... and how high is your bed off the ground?
How high is your kids bed for that matter? or your pets...?

Not much different from dying in your sleep from smoke inhalation than co2 inhalation...

Be afraid.. very afraid...

Sqyre...

I can appreciate the concern of being killed in your sleep but you have to think about how much a Co2 tank could leak and how much air it has to purge out of the room to be damaging/fatal. Also the fact that your door doesn't trap all of the CO2 in the small space. Being a laundry there is probally a drain too. Unless your laundry/home is totally air tight and has no air movement within it (not likely), I'd listen to the argument. In principle it may be possible, but in reality there are more chances of gassing yourself with your own farts in your sleep!

If you want to go out and buy a CO2 alarm, go for it. But chances are your wasting your money.

 

[QldKev]

Maybe we should try carbonating with NOs, that way we will at least enjoy our leaks

QldKev

 

[Jazzafish]

Maybe we should try carbonating with NOs, that way we will at least enjoy our leaks

QldKev

It has been done, NOs carbonation that is!

Nitrogen is hard to detect from smell, and will kill you without enough oxygen being mixed with it.

Use that in the brewery too, to add positive pressure in vessels when pumping from them. A guy on the bottling line nearly earnt himself a darwin award by lowering himself into a recently emptied bright beer tank to retrieve a broken carbonation stone... luckily he had the sense/health/strength to pull himself out when he realised that there was little to no oxygen in the tank.

Not exactly evolved people on the bottling line! Well some of them anyway!

 

[roger mellie]

It has been done, NOs carbonation that is!

Nitrogen is hard to detect from smell, and will kill you without enough oxygen being mixed with it.

Use that in the brewery too, to add positive pressure in vessels when pumping from them. A guy on the bottling line nearly earnt himself a darwin award by lowering himself into a recently emptied bright beer tank to retrieve a broken carbonation stone... luckily he had the sense/health/strength to pull himself out when he realised that there was little to no oxygen in the tank.

Not exactly evolved people on the bottling line! Well some of them anyway!

he can consider himself very lucky

if the atmosphere in the tank had been 100% nitrogen - his first breath in the tank would have been his last - its that quick - you dont get a second chance.

Some nasty accidents have been caused with nitrogen asphyxiation - very unforgiving gas.

RM

 

[QldKev]

he can consider himself very lucky

if the atmosphere in the tank had been 100% nitrogen - his first breath in the tank would have been his last - its that quick - you dont get a second chance.

Some nasty accidents have been caused with nitrogen asphyxiation - very unforgiving gas.

RM

NO2 is very dangerous, I was mening NOs as in N2O (2 being in subscript) (laughing gas)

A shot for the hombrew, a shot for my V8, and a shot for me...

QldKev

 

[Screwtop]

Save the planet, bottle your beer !

So, we can't ever open them?

1% (10,000 ppm) causes drowsiness with continuous exposure

So thats why I drift off after a few beers

Maybe we should try carbonating with NOs, that way we will at least enjoy our leaks

I've always enjoyed a leak :lol:

 

[Cracka]

I remember reading this link & thinking I must always think to take the ute instead of the car.




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