C'mon Straya - you know you want one.

[Elz]

I like taking the piss as much as the next guy. But it's kinda sad that on the progressive forum where is normal to create or alter beer styles, make new equipment and generally innovate (get away from the main stream) that the majority of blokes, and I assume some gals as well, are soooo conservative towards the WW. For Fukcs sake, you may not like the owner but does that make it a bad product? It is expensive, but does that make it a bad piece of equipment. It does not ferment two brews at once, does that make unworthy of purchasing (ps get over this issue as it is so simple to bottle a some beer between brews it not funny).



I get that most members her enjoy making things from scratch, but people can walk and chew gum at the same time.

plus the people that have purchased a WW are overwhelming over the moon with their purchase.

plus I love the original post was a troll, some irony in this.

Anyway cheers and heres to my perfectly fermented draught beer poured at the right temperature from a vessel that is easy to clean and use. (albeit costing a small fortune!)
Elz

PS probably buy a Grainfather when they are released in Aus as I couldn't be bothered making one from scratch (more wasted money? food for thought?)

 

[sp0rk]

PS probably buy a Grainfather when they are released in Aus as I couldn't be bothered making one from scratch (more wasted money? food for thought?)

A little birdie tells me they're going to retail for under $1k...

 

[Blind Dog]

Whilt you

I like taking the piss as much as the next guy. But it's kinda sad that on the progressive forum where is normal to create or alter beer styles, make new equipment and generally innovate (get away from the main stream) that the majority of blokes, and I assume some gals as well, are soooo conservative towards the WW. For Fukcs sake, you may not like the owner but does that make it a bad product? It to expensive, but does that make it a bad piece of equipment. It does not ferment two brews at once, does that make unworthy of purchasing (ps get over this issue as it is so simple to bottle a some beer between brews it not funny).



I get that most members her enjoy making things from scratch, but people can walk and chew gum at the same time.

plus the people that have purchased a WW are overwhelming over the moon with there purchase.

plus I love the original post was a troll, some irony in this.

Anyway cheers and heres to my perfectly fermented draught beer poured at the right temperature from a vessel that is easy to clean and use. (albeit costing a small fortune!)
Elz

PS probably buy a Grainfather when they are released in Aus as I couldn't be bothered making one from scratch (more wasted money? food for thought?)

[SIZE=medium]Whilst you may love your WW, not a lot of people see the point. It just seems to be a very expensive one of these: http://www.beermachine.com/[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]It’s designed to ferment 1 beer at a time, and costs a hell of a lot of money. Now if I could ferment and pour 3 or 4 beers at once, it would make more sense (still overpriced mind). If it fermented beer and allowed me to keg or bottle under pressure and didn’t cost 50 times more than a brand new keg and spunding valve set up that would do the same thing, it would make more sense. But it doesn’t, so it doesn’t.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]You love it and defend it like a proud father. Fair play and good on you and I wish you and everyone who ever owns one many happy, perfectly fermented pints. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]PS: just secretly I suspect that (just about) everybody was well aware that the 1st[/SIZE] post was a troll, but its fun…

 

[Bridges]

A little birdie tells me they're going to retail for under $1k...

Is it a birdie like this one Thats $995 un zud pesos. Or about $15.50 Australian.

Not that I'd deliberately fish for a response as I've nothing better to do...

 

[Josh SA]

[SIZE=medium]It’s designed to ferment 1 beer at a time, and costs a hell of a lot of money. Now if I could ferment and pour 3 or 4 beers at once, it would make more sense (still overpriced mind). If it fermented beer and allowed me to keg or bottle under pressure and didn’t cost 50 times more than a brand new keg and spunding valve set up that would do the same thing, it would make more sense. But it doesn’t, so it doesn’t.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]You love it and defend it like a proud father. Fair play and good on you and I wish you and everyone who ever owns one many happy, perfectly fermented pints. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=medium]PS: just secretly I suspect that (just about) everybody was well aware that the 1st[/SIZE] post was a troll, but its fun…

Agreed.

I think our temp controlled ferment fridges, plastic fvs, healthy yeast pitches & airlocks or glad wrap are more than capable of producing great beer.

The saying, "Brewers make wort & yeast make beer" sums up the creative part of brewing that most of us are attracted to.

I love monitoring the ferment but get a lot more satisfaction from producing the wort, especially when you get it spot on.

 

[roger mellie]

"I think our temp controlled ferment fridges, plastic fvs, healthy yeast pitches & airlocks or glad wrap are more than capable of producing great beer."

Nah - Stainless Conicals are the shiznitz - everyone knows this

You just aren't a real brewer unless you are fermenting in a stainless conical.

RM

 

[mje1980]

Yeah but they only cost a couple of hundred bucks, so they can't produce as good a beer as a WW surely

 

[Elz]

I kinda get where your coming from, but your argument falls down when it comes to money. It's such a subjective notion. For someone living in India and earning a couple of dollars a day reading this blog would think, WTF are these aholes talking about. Whilst some no the other end of the spectrum some of the top earners could spend 6K at a drop of the hat (but still not be invested in the mindset of trying to brew quality beer). This leaves us in the middle +/-. For me being a DINC, 6K is a lotta money, but working full-time in a very, very demanding job the simplicity of the WW, and the resulting quality beer, gives me great happiness. Agreed its a lot of money, and most likely aimed at a specific market, but its still a great product. I cannot afford an expensive car but do I say all Ferrai'owners are dickheads, no. (by the way in no way am I comparing Ferrai with WW). But I see the beauty that owner of such a car sees in such a vehicle. Likewise, a home brewer with a second hand fridge used as a fermenting vessel; great; good on you mate. There is a spectrum and within this space we prioritise where we wish to place our self in it. For me, my total brewing equipment outlay will be less then 10K, some will spend more, some less.
Cheers and here's to great beer.
Elz

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

I am happy to take your subjective notions, all the way to the bank :super:

 

[Elz]

I'm not a fool though!

 

[Elz]

Plus, love a good argument and a bit of banter! Plus plus you sell me something Shite, I won't be coming back!

 

[Adr_0]

The irony of all this is that a select few WW brewers have done more to tarnish the image than the unit itself ccould have ever done, and their attitude is far more negative and cynical than the piss-takers of AHB.

(don't worry Elz , you are off the hook...)

 

[roger mellie]

The irony of all this is that a select few WW brewers have done more to tarnish the image than the unit itself ccould have ever done, and their attitude is far more negative and cynical than the piss-takers of AHB.

I resemble that statement.

 

[Ducatiboy stu]

The irony of all this is that a select few WW brewers have done more to tarnish the image than the unit itself ccould have ever done, and their attitude is far more negative and cynical than the piss-takers of AHB

Sounds like the Liberal Party

 

[Blind Dog]

I kinda get where your coming from, but your argument falls down when it comes to money. It's such a subjective notion. For someone living in India and earning a couple of dollars a day reading this blog would think, WTF are these aholes talking about. Whilst some no the other end of the spectrum some of the top earners could spend 6K at a drop of the hat (but still not be invested in the mindset of trying to brew quality beer). This leaves us in the middle +/-. For me being a DINC, 6K is a lotta money, but working full-time in a very, very demanding job the simplicity of the WW, and the resulting quality beer, gives me great happiness. Agreed its a lot of money, and most likely aimed at a specific market, but its still a great product. I cannot afford an expensive car but do I say all Ferrai'owners are dickheads, no. (by the way in no way am I comparing Ferrai with WW). But I see the beauty that owner of such a car sees in such a vehicle. Likewise, a home brewer with a second hand fridge used as a fermenting vessel; great; good on you mate. There is a spectrum and within this space we prioritise where we wish to place our self in it. For me, my total brewing equipment outlay will be less then 10K, some will spend more, some less.
Cheers and here's to great beer.
Elz

Anyone who calls you a dickhead for spending your $ as you see fit, is themselves a dickhead. I can't comprehend why anyone would buy one as I really can't see the point of a WW, but I truly hope you and everyone who buys one enjoys it and the beers you make with it. Because at the end of the day that's the whole point of what we all do. How you spend your $ does not affect me in any way shape or form, but it is good fun to take the Michael and wind you up a little. Particularly when I suspect that was the whole point of RMs original post.

And I'm sorry but someone needs to tell them that their testimonial videos are just hilarious. Get some bikini clad goddesses using it in the ads rather than lonely old blokes who look like they're getting ready to face the grim reaper and I reckon sales would go through the roof and you, RM and wobbly would be seen as visionaries. Maybe

 

[manticle]

I kinda get where your coming from, but your argument falls down when it comes to money. It's such a subjective notion. For someone living in India and earning a couple of dollars a day reading this blog would think, WTF are these aholes talking about. Whilst some no the other end of the spectrum some of the top earners could spend 6K at a drop of the hat (but still not be invested in the mindset of trying to brew quality beer). This leaves us in the middle +/-. For me being a DINC, 6K is a lotta money, but working full-time in a very, very demanding job the simplicity of the WW, and the resulting quality beer, gives me great happiness. Agreed its a lot of money, and most likely aimed at a specific market, but its still a great product. I cannot afford an expensive car but do I say all Ferrai'owners are dickheads, no. (by the way in no way am I comparing Ferrai with WW). But I see the beauty that owner of such a car sees in such a vehicle. Likewise, a home brewer with a second hand fridge used as a fermenting vessel; great; good on you mate. There is a spectrum and within this space we prioritise where we wish to place our self in it. For me, my total brewing equipment outlay will be less then 10K, some will spend more, some less.
Cheers and here's to great beer.
Elz

Yes..........


And no.

Subjectivity and relativity. Forget the 6k or the 3rd world for a sec. You are dealing with first worlders who have a decent understanding of brewing processes and equipment required. For most of them it's about value for money, balancing between product and effort (as it is for you, RM or wobbly for starters). While I have made it clear that I am not a fan of simply repeating 'spensivedoesntmakewort', there are points that could/should be addresed from a marketing petspective to make it appeal as more than a rich man's toy.

I'd be far more interested talking about the engineering, design, manufacture and future possible improvements than the price but whether it does what it is supposed to do and is value for money ( whatever that money is) is a valid discussion point. If you're trying to sell something and someone, reasonably, with some knowledge of the subject suggests it's a bit pricey then it's not a great idea to dismiss them out of hand. Improvements can be made, marketability can increase.

 

[pk.sax]

Has someone in this nine page wonder yet called it a Williams Wank yet?

 

[manticle]

Yes

 

[roger mellie]

Yes..........


And no.

Subjectivity and relativity. Forget the 6k or the 3rd world for a sec. You are dealing with first worlders who have a decent understanding of brewing processes and equipment required. For most of them it's about value for money, balancing between product and effort (as it is for you, RM or wobbly for starters). While I have made it clear that I am not a fan of simply repeating 'spensivedoesntmakewort', there are points that could/should be addresed from a marketing petspective to make it appeal as more than a rich man's toy.

I'd be far more interested talking about the engineering, design, manufacture and future possible improvements than the price but whether it does what it is supposed to do and is value for money ( whatever that money is) is a valid discussion point. If you're trying to sell something and someone, reasonably, with some knowledge of the subject suggests it's a bit pricey then it's not a great idea to dismiss them out of hand. Improvements can be made, marketability can increase.

Interesting point of view Manticle - and a voice of reason in what has really become a wind up thread. I think that was the point in the beginning - I appreciated Elz and my mate Wobbly for raking the coals. I completely disagree with some of the elitist comments made here - I can only speak for myself here - Im not ******* elitist.

I would make the point that I believe my beers have always been good - that I have made some ordinary beers in the WW - but that I can (IN MY OPINION) not put any blame on the fermenting/post boil temperature control/carbonation/introduction of any O2 now. The fact that post boil - I cool and dump in the WW - then set the temp and pitch at a consistent temp - knowing there is a minute change of an infection as the WW allows me to purge the headspace with CO2 and put a positive pressure on the wort prior to pitching. In other words - I believe I have made one aspect of beer making a given, ticked that box and moved my focus onto the first half of the puzzle - hitting targets, repeatability, you know what I saying. This is no bad thing and was the main reason for me buying one of these.

When I say I know Ian Williams - I have met him a number of times and I have brought up the cost of the WW and this being a barrier for 'acceptance by the masses'. Without giving too much away I think WW really struggled in their first years - they are probably only just solvent. I don't think Ian is getting rich off these things, but I know he is passionate and a pretty canny judge of what his market is. I don't think he sees this place as his market.

So the points you make about value engineering and possibly a more realistic price probably hinge on how many units he can sell and how that flows into increased sales, is a valid one.

I wouldn't expect a price reduction any time soon.

I did see one for sale 2nd hand in NZ for 3000 - which depressed me - I thought they would hold their value better than that - but this is a lifetime purchase - no question.

Time for this thread to die - along with the rest of them - for Stuey to polish up his shiny silver Moto Guzzi clone, pack his multimeter and set off for his Latte and dream about red bikes - as I shall.

Im the immortal words of the great man

Screw you guys - I'm going home.

RM

 

[Blind Dog]

Can't let you have the last word though.