Climate Change Affecting Hops Quality?

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So you say they could produce hops of the same quality at higher temperatures but chose to blame the warming to hide that they can't supply the demand.

No......i said ther PROBABLY hasnt been a change and were getting ripped off because im a cospiricy theorist. We get duped in every other way to keep us on the poverty line no mater how hard we work so why would this be different?

Im gunna stop ranting my X file theorys now and let this thread get back on topic. :)

cheers
 
It clearly isn't in here.
 
Traditionally governements and large businesses have been opposed to accepting climate change as it's likely to impinge on profits so I'm not quite certain of the validity of the 'it's all about the tax' brigade. People have been harping on about icecaps melting for years with no-one listening (David Suzuki is not a new name).

That said - the way governments are starting to deal with it now makes one cynical about their motivations but not flying an aeroplane to work or running your 8 million hp generator to flush your loo can't be a bad thing can it?

Who cares if it's real or not? There's no need to suck up every resource we can JUST because we can.


Won't someone think of the hops?
 
The best thing most of us could do for the environment is kill ourselves.

A suprisingly unpopular solution, for some reason...

Not quite...there's nearly 7 billion of us...we just need to drop down to 2 billion.

Volunteers take a step forward....pleeeeease :ph34r:
 
Just as a conspiracy theory...could it be that the nearly 95% of the nearly 7 billion people drink megaswill and its actually the megabrew companies who are getting all the good hops?

The decline in alpha acids in the remaining hops equates to about 0.06% per annum :ph34r:
 
That said - the way governments are starting to deal with it now makes one cynical about their motivations but not flying an aeroplane to work or running your 8 million hp generator to flush your loo can't be a bad thing can it?

On the other hand, taxing the production of the most basic necessity of life and paying farmers to permanently destroy productive agricultural land cant be a good thing can it?
 
+1

I drive a V8 and happily laugh at people in a Prius as a roll on by.


Why? How much do you spend on a tank of fuel and how much mileage do you get out of that? Especially when petrol was over $1.75 a litre, which it will go back to as soon as the economy recovers.

Say what you like C02 emissions, I dont get why anyone would laugh at people driving cars with good fuel economy. Personally im jelous of prius owners, they use 3.9 L / 100km whereas I use more than double that in a 4 cylinder.
 
Global warming has nothing to do with the globe getting warmer, and everything to do with global resource distribution and world peace.

20% of the world use 80% of the resources. For China and India to live like us ... we need 4 more Earths.

Calling those of us who use all the resources "greedy" doesn't work - capitalism embraces greed.

Telling us we're "destroying nature" does.

Anyway, I'll grow my hops in an airconditioned greenhouse under lights running on petrol generators when all the hippies are driving electric. Oil ought to be cheap when no one wants it ... but yeah, when no one wants it it'll be cheap ... and everyone will want it.

We'll burn every last drop so long as capitalism exists. I suggest not buying beachside real estate. :D
 
Jonez,

You got a link to an article stating that the world is warming?
Also, since what time has it been warming?

I have read contradictory evidence, and am skeptical of anyone stating this as a fact without proper evidence.

Not trying to cut you down, I actually enjoy reading anything scientific on this topic, and would like to know where the info comes from.

In case you hadn't guessed, I am in the 'global warming is bullshit' camp, and it's neighbouring site the 'human CO2 production has negligible effect on world temperatures' tent.

Marlow
 
I'm lazy and stupid too.
 
It it wasn't for bum's interjections to lighten the mood I think I would go crazy in all the climate change threads that pop up here.
 
Jonez,

You got a link to an article stating that the world is warming?
Also, since what time has it been warming?

I have read contradictory evidence, and am skeptical of anyone stating this as a fact without proper evidence.

Not trying to cut you down, I actually enjoy reading anything scientific on this topic, and would like to know where the info comes from.

In case you hadn't guessed, I am in the 'global warming is bullshit' camp, and it's neighbouring site the 'human CO2 production has negligible effect on world temperatures' tent.

Marlow

Marlow,

posted this before, and I think I'll stop trying to convert people, but the worlds leading sciencits almost universally agree that the world is warming because of human activity.

The intergovernmental panel on climate change (IPCC) are a really brainy bunch, and in their 2007 report says with "90% certainty" that human activities are the cause of recent global warming. This position has been ratified and reiterated by a plethora of science academies and professional societies around the world.

Basically, because I lack the technical training to really understand the science, I am more than willing to believe what the IPCC says - its membership includes literally the most important, most widely published, field-leading scientists from a variety of disciplines/countries. I'm much more likely to believe them than the politicians, or my what mates down the pub say.
 
On the other hand, taxing the production of the most basic necessity of life and paying farmers to permanently destroy productive agricultural land cant be a good thing can it?

I'm not quite sure what you mean.

By 'production of the most basic necessity of life' do you mean carbon? Water?

Also curious about the other part. Not saying you're incorrect - just not sure wha you're referring to. Who's paying who to destroy what and where?

As I said - the necessity to have less impact on the environment and the way governments handle it all are two separate things in my book.
 
JohnAnchovy,

Cheers for the link.
Read the part 1 that says temps are rising, and hard to disagree with such a group of boffins as them.

It is just that I have read elsewhere, that in recent years (since 2001), satelite data has shown a plateau and small drop in global temperatures.
I read this in a talk given by Peter Ellis, who works with the Advisory Committee of the Carbon Sense Coalition. A group who seem to disagree with the global warming theory in recent years (and most especially the carbon links to any temperature trends).

Link to graph and other evidence they go by:

http://carbon-sense.com/category/the-evidence/

I know this is just another group of scientists stating their point, with data that supports their view, but like most of these groups they seem pretty convincing. And like you said, without being an expert in the field (I am not) you just have to pick who you trust the most.

Also, I agree when you said this topic comes up way too often, and I have not seen anyone converted to the other side of the argument from posts on here.

Cheers again for the link,

Marlow
 
posted this before, and I think I'll stop trying to convert people, but the worlds leading sciencits almost universally agree that the world is warming because of human activity.

The intergovernmental panel on climate change (IPCC) are a really brainy bunch, and in their 2007 report says with "90% certainty" that human activities are the cause of recent global warming. This position has been ratified and reiterated by a plethora of science academies and professional societies around the world.

Basically, because I lack the technical training to really understand the science, I am more than willing to believe what the IPCC says - its membership includes literally the most important, most widely published, field-leading scientists from a variety of disciplines/countries. I'm much more likely to believe them than the politicians, or my what mates down the pub say.
I guess, in essence, this is what I mainly have a problem with. It doesn't help that I've just finished reading 'Bad Science' by Dr. Ben Goldacre. Great book btw.

The above attitude - that science is too hard, and therefore no-one properly understands it - is utter crap. It's the reason why we have to write 'popular science' news articles in baby-talk, despite the fact that the finance section of the newspaper may as well be in Greek for all I can understand. The finance section assumes that if I wanted to know what was in there, I would either already know how to read it, or would go and find out how. The science section assumes that this is impossible.

In a perfect world, the results of experiments, models, and research would be presented prima facie, and people who were interested in the topic would have the ability to read through and make their own conclusions. People with the required scientific background and interest could rebutt the conclusions drawn from the results and suggest changes to the methods.

This is not a perfect world.

Instead we get a 'summary' of various research -- which, if you've ever read or written a scientific paper, will look pretty bogus -- from 'top scientists' because we're all too stupid to understand. There's no section of 'criticisms or other models'. For example, if the 'studies' were actually meant to reach a conclusion, and not just float political ideals, we would see another mass-publicised 'summary' which would include

"some scientists are concerned about potential biases of the report's lead authors, who have been shown to favor their own research."

"Arctic Sea ice is melting faster than predicted by climate models. Research conducted by the U.S.-based National Center for Atmospheric Research and the National Snow and Ice Data Center demonstrates that the 18 models on which the IPCC has based its current recommendations could already be out of date, and that the retreat of the ice could already be 30 years ahead of the IPCC's worst case scenario."

"In January 2005, Dr. Chris Landsea who was already an author on the 2001 report (TAR), withdrew his participation in the Fourth Assessment Report claiming that the portion of the IPCC to which he contributed had become "politicized" and that the IPCC leadership simply dismissed his concerns. He published an open letter explaining why he was resigning and to "bring awareness to what I view as a problem in the IPCC process". The conflict centers around Dr. Kevin Trenberth's public contention that global warming was contributing to "recent
hurricane activity", which Landsea described as a "misrepresentation of climate science while invoking the authority of the IPCC". He has stated that the process of producing the Fourth Assessment Report is "motivated by pre-conceived agendas" and "scientifically unsound". Landsea writes that "the IPCC leadership said that Dr. Trenberth was speaking as an individual even though he was introduced in the press conference as an IPCC lead author.""

Now, sure, most people who complain about something that the government has approved of are called 'conspiracy theorists' but I don't think it's too much to ask to have a real, actual, thorough investigation of the current data. Granted, this data is extremely complex (something that most people seem to ignore in assuming that a single variable is the alpha and omega of the equation, nicely summarised in the above book by the phrase 'I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that') but what we need is a review that does take into account the actual errors and uncertainties, rather than dumbing it down to an opinion that is '90% confident'. This includes using the models that give the best fit to the observables, not the best fit to 'positive climate change' by people who work in... whatd'ya know - climate change - who are out of a job if it doesn't exist.

Hmmm... that turned into a nice rant, eh? My point is - don't go trusting these summary sources as gospel. Read through the summary, then have a look at those references. Then have a look at the criticisms of those references, and weed out anything that was done badly. If everyone did this, sure - we might not get a definitive answer about climate change (there may not be one to get) but at least people would STFU about something they have no actual grasp of and stop pretending to be a further source of authority. When enough people ignore the criticisms and re-hash the existing statements, soon enough the debatable fact is an unambiguous, undeniable, unanimous fact.

For hundeds of years, authority figures (yes, they too would have been called literally the most important, most widely published, field-leading scientists from a variety of disciplines/countries) said the earth was flat, and the centre of the universe. Look how well that turned out.

"marlow_coates" said:
hard to disagree with such a group of boffins as them
No! It's NOT!!!
 
I know this is just another group of scientists stating their point, with data that supports their view, but like most of these groups they seem pretty convincing.

I totally disagree.

The carbon Sense Coalition are basically loosely-organized lobby group - not a scientific body (most of the members aren't even scientists!). Details about the membership of their advisory board can be found here. None of them are climatologists or climate scientists, and your man Ellis doesn't even appear to have a PhD.

Compare this to the internationally recognised members of the IPCC who all have extensive research histories and countless publications in peer-reviewed journals.
 
I guess, in essence, this is what I mainly have a problem with. It doesn't help that I've just finished reading 'Bad Science' by Dr. Ben Goldacre. Great book btw.

The above attitude - that science is too hard, and therefore no-one properly understands it - is utter crap.

QB, I'm not insinuating that, and I agree that people should actually look at the evidence themselves. However I think it is completely ridiculous for you to think that a layperson will be able to assess the validity of EXTREMELY complicated climate modelling techniques. We can look at the macro-detail, and assess for ourselves precisely how the project has been carried out, but we NEED to rely on executive summaries to explain the complexities for us, and to validate the modeling techniques used.
 
Sorry for just kinda jumping in here, but anyway.

An executive summary/abstract is not meant to detail the entire body of work, if it did, why would there be a body of work following it? The executive summary/abstract should summarise the work for a prospective reader so that they may make a fairly quick choice whether or not the work is relevant to their interests, and worth their time to read some or all of the main body.
 

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