Cleaning/sanitising Systems For Ag Keg Brewers

[PistolPatch]

Many people on AHB brew excellent beer and have the brewing process down very well as they should because brewing a great beer is not very hard.

I'm starting to think though that, when you have a great recipe, brewing an excellent beer is not as hard as working out ways to more efficiently 'run' your brewery.

For God knows what reason, a lot of all-grain brewers focus on efficiency which I think is a ridiculous thing to focus on - especiallly as a beginner. (Several people will object to that last sentence but I'll qualify that sentence later.)

So, even before we have a good recipe, many people concentrate on the brewing side of things but when you really look at it, certainly time-wise, it is cleaning and sanitisation that are the areas where brewery efficiency can best be increased.

A few months ago I split my brewing between myself and my nephew who lives around the corner. In 7 hrs we can brew around 90 litres. Cleaning, kegging and filtering, believe it or not, takes up around the same amount of time.

We've discussed water manifold systems etc as these are what I used to use when working with Matilda Bay to speed things up but all those things only make the brewing side easier.

So, does anyone have some clever ideas on cleaning/sanitising?

Brewing is easy, cleaning is not!


Pat

 

[browndog]

Good topic Pat,
As far as my brewery is concerned, it gets cleaned with hot and cold water only. Hot water for the plumbing and the hose for the mash tun and kettle. As for the HLT, it gets wiped out so it's dry and that's it. The ball valves from the tun and kettle get a good rinse being sure to get the wort out of the valve area. Now for the bit that may raise some eyebrows, I use soduim met for sanitation. I scrub my fermenters with warm or cold water and then add sodium met and boiling water and let this mix sit in the fermenter till it is next needed. When the lid of the fermenter is removed there is a smell of gas that I am sure is the thing that is doing the santizing. My dog always gives me the wide berth when she sees me playing with fermenters in fear of copping a whiff. I've done 80 odd AGs using this method with no infections so it must work. The last 50 have been NC too. For my kegs, I simply give them a rinse with boiling water a few times, add a bit of sodium met and 1/2 litre of boiling water, chuck on the lid, give it a shake and that's it till next time. Some might say a very lazy regime, but it works for me and I'll stick with it.

cheers

Browndog

 

[kook]

A few things I've found that make my life easier for cleaning / sanititation:

- As soon as I rack something from a fermenter, I hose the fermenter out then fill it with napisan solution. It's usually left for 2-3 days (sometimes a week) soaking. After that all I need to do is hose it out and leave it drying upside down in a clean area. Then when it comes to brew day, I only need to sanitise it (which is very easy with StarSan, One-Shot or Iodophor).

- With kegs, if they run out I keep them in the fridge till I'm ready to clean them. Then it's just a case of shaking with a hot napisan solution, and rinsing with clean water. Make sure you inspect it at this stage too, it should be sparkling clean inside. Then I just fill with a few litres of sanitiser, purge the keg and push the sanitiser through a tap. That way a tap gets cleaned, and the keg is clean, purged with CO2 and ready to go. I just store it with a "clean" tag on it till I'm ready to use. After I've used a keg for 3-4 batches I usually take apart the whole keg, soaking the posts, poppets etc in napisan for a few days. When re-assembling, spray everything (seals, poppets, threads, etc) with sanitiser.

- Bottles - Buy them new It's expensive but so much easier. If you have to clean bottles, buy a big (108L) tub from bunnings. Place all your bottles in it upright and fill the bottles with either a napisan, caustic or bleach solution. Then fill around them with the same. Just leave it for a week and then anything should just lift off when you use a bottle brush.

The other obvious thing is to clean stuff straight away. Don't leave grain in your mash tun. It's much easier to just hose out and give it a quick scrub while the boil is starting. Same thing with your kettle. As soon as it's cool enough to move, clean it.

 

[Cortez The Killer]

Cleaning is the worst part of brewing but necessary

Doing 2 or more batches on a brew day is a good way to cut down on clean up / setup times

Cheers

 

[sjc]

Many people on AHB brew excellent beer and have the brewing process down very well as they should because brewing a great beer is not very hard.

I'm starting to think though that, when you have a great recipe, brewing an excellent beer is not as hard as working out ways to more efficiently 'run' your brewery.

For God knows what reason, a lot of all-grain brewers focus on efficiency which I think is a ridiculous thing to focus on - especiallly as a beginner. (Several people will object to that last sentence but I'll qualify that sentence later.)

So, even before we have a good recipe, many people concentrate on the brewing side of things but when you really look at it, certainly time-wise, it is cleaning and sanitisation that are the areas where brewery efficiency can best be increased.

A few months ago I split my brewing between myself and my nephew who lives around the corner. In 7 hrs we can brew around 90 litres. Cleaning, kegging and filtering, believe it or not, takes up around the same amount of time.

We've discussed water manifold systems etc as these are what I used to use when working with Matilda Bay to speed things up but all those things only make the brewing side easier.

Hi Pat
I wasn't aware of this! Would you like to elaborate in what capacity you worked at Matilda Bay?

Cheers
Stephen.

P.S. I made that havarti cheese a couple of weekends ago. Should be ready in about a month, in case you happen to be in the neighbourhood!

So, does anyone have some clever ideas on cleaning/sanitising?

Brewing is easy, cleaning is not!


Pat

 

[user 1153]

For God knows what reason, a lot of all-grain brewers focus on efficiency which I think is a ridiculous thing to focus on - especiallly as a beginner.

I've got 4 All Grain brews down so far and I wouldn't have a a clue what my "efficiency" is and I really couldn't care less. The beer tastes better than anything I've brewed from a kit and that is all that matters to me.

/me runs and waits to get smashed down....

As for cleaning. I keep that simple too. I don't think there is any way around it but I just keep the things I use for the brew to an absolute minimum and keep my spray bottle of prox on hand. Can't beat it seriously

I also never 'sanitise' anything pre boil. HLT and Tun just get a squirt out/rub down and a sit in the sun to dry and nothing else.

Boiler and connectors out of it get the royal treatment as do the usual fermenting items but even that is just a napisan bath long before the event and a prox wash on the day.

 

[devo]

I find that I save time cleaning as I go. i.e. Once the wort has been drained from the mash tun into the kettle I immediately start to remove the spent grain and clean out the tun. I also partially fill my HLT with an idophor solution so that i can start flushing the plumbing and pump system once the hot wort has been pumped into cubes. That just leaves the kettle to clean and everything done in 6hrs, start to finish.

 

[Fents]

i do the same. after the mash is finished and wort drained into kettle i find the nearest garden to dump grain and clean mash tun straight away while waiting for the boil.

Dont have a HLT so no need to clean it (just a 15litre pot that onl;y has water in it anyways) and after the boil is done just rinse and wipe the kettle out and cover it with a towel so no leaves fall in it.

 

[Fents]

Oh and PP. I think you'll find the whole new brewer's efficency obsession likened to a new drag car just purchased.

Sp you've just purchased that brand new drag car for the quarter mile....Its all setup and ready to go. You are about to have your first quater mile run...

You jump in and smoke it all the way down the track....

Instead of just enjoying "the best ride of your life" all you are concerned about is the time (efficency) in which you completed that first (brew) quater mile

 

[tangent]

some people get obsessed with the numbers but never even mention if the beer is OK

 

[SpillsMostOfIt]

So, does anyone have some clever ideas on cleaning/sanitising?

Get the Other Half interested in brewing and tell them that brewing is 95% cleaning and that must be mastered before moving onto the tricky stuff.

Cleaning something immediately after you use it is the best way to save time and effort if you cannot. I also have a couple of cubes full of percarbonate solution that get dumped into fermenters and the like for soaking if I am that way inclined.

Something that sounds silly at first, but really works, is to use as little equipment as possible. I went through a phase (and relapse from time to time) of solving some perceived problem with more kit that just has to be washed at the end.

I use a lot more kitchen equipment now (stainless steel skimming spoon, potato masher, hop mugs) that can be thrown into the dishwasher and forgotten about.

If all else fails, brew bigger batches and drink less... </Heresy>

 

[fraser_john]

Seems already a bit of a common thread in the responses, clean whilst you brew! I like several others emtpy my mash tun as soon as I am finished sparging. Clean that whilst waiting for the boil to start, fill the HLT and the mash tun half with water again, add some napisan and start heating it, circulating it through my RIMS unit, cleaning the whole system. Once the boil is done and the wort cooled via the CFC, I then start circulating the heated napisan mix via the CFC to clean it out as well!

6-7hrs tops.

Oh yeah, I agree, brew bigger batches, I do 38 litres at a time. Dunno about the drink less though There are three drinkers in my household and the love a drop! :lol:

 

[PistolPatch]

Running short on time this last week but thanks for the replies above. (I'll email you sjc!)

I had a few beers when I started this thread - first time ever but when I was writing it, I was trying to think of hardware/equipment that might make cleaning easier such as Fingerlickin's idea in this thread

Just seems we spend a lot of money on the brewing equip but there aren't many nventions like Fingerlickin's around. Be nice to see some sort of automatic keg and fermenter cleaner. You know, just chuck them upside down on a cradle and use a manifold to run the vartious cleaners and sanitisers through - a slightly more advanced version of Fingers.

Browndog has me tempted on the MSB as at least you don't have to lift 23 litres in and out of a bathtub four times as I have to do at the moment as I'm using 4 fermenters each brew day.

I had an idea the other day that is sort of related to all this but will only be of benefit to brewers who have a spare keg but a limited amount of fridge space. So it won't be relevant to many of you but I'll post the idea here later anyway when I get some more time.

Thanks again guys,
Pat

 

[Ross]

Be nice to see some sort of automatic keg and fermenter cleaner. You know, just chuck them upside down on a cradle and use a manifold to run the vartious cleaners and sanitisers through - a slightly more advanced version of Fingers.

Pat

I clean my keg by adding some keg/line cleaner to the keg & then connecting my peristaltic pump to the QD's - the solution is sucked up the beer out & flushed back in through the gas - works a treat. I finish off in the same manner with some non-rinse sanitiser.

As for fermenters, I'm way too lazy. Fermenters stay full of beer dregs & sat in the brew fridge until either brew day or the day before - they then get a quick hose out & some non rinse sanitiser to just above the tap, until the new brew is ready to go in. No thread scrubbing, tap dismantling...

cheers Ross

 

[tipsy]

I don't keg yet but cleaning the AG equipment is pretty simple.
After dumping the grain, I wait until I'm chilling the wort and rinse the tun with the hot water from that.
Any hot water left over from the chiller is put into a drum to wash the pots.

Fermenters and bottles only get a rinse, then a squirt with a no rinse sanitiser before use.

 

[justsomeguy]

Hey all,

I'm 'clean-as-you-go' guy as well.

The hot water from my immersion chiller goes into my HLT which then gets pumped throughout the system for cleaning.

The worst thing I find to clean is fermenters with that line of crap around the top. I have now automated that cleaning process. I put around 5 litres of warm water in a 20 litre bucket with some sodium perc. My cheap submersible pump goes in the bucket with an extension tube connected to it. I chuck all of the fermenter bits and pieces into the bucket and drop the fermenter upside down over the top of the tube and turn the pump on. Come back a while later and the fermenter is sparkling clean. The warm water heads up the tube and sprays the inside of the fermenter with the cleaning solution.

I do the same thing with kegs as well. I'm goign to make a couple of attachments so that the pump will pump solution through all of the keg connects as well, time permitting.

gary

 

[PistolPatch]

Ross, I like lazy

Tipsy, if only I had the space. I'm in a unit with bugger-all 'wet' area - grrrr!

Gary, would love some pics on your solution as I have two submersible pumps. (I also have 4 fermenters to clean at any one time but might be able to reduce this to two.) Your system intrigues me so please post the pics.

Cheers
Pat

 

[justsomeguy]

Gary, would love some pics on your solution as I have two submersible pumps. (I also have 4 fermenters to clean at any one time but might be able to reduce this to two.) Your system intrigues me so please post the pics.

Sorry Pat. Everything's packed ! Getting ready to relocate the family to Perth. I'm heading out on Thursday to find a place to live before the family follows in a couple of weeks.

Had to pour out around 50 litres today to get the freezer clean and ready for the move. Such a sad day.

As to the cleaning system, I simply dropped a submersible pump in a 25 litre bucket full of sodium perc that has a 2-3 foot long irrigation tube attached to the pump outlet. Sit a fermenter upside down on top of the tube and turn the sucker on. The pump has enough head to spray the inside of the fermenetr fully. Have a couple of quiet ones and come back to a sparkling clean fermenter. I reckon the warm water and sodium perc make a difference though.

gary

 

[PistolPatch]

Thanks for getting back to me Gary.

Moving to Perth eh? Excellent! I'll send you my details in case you have time for a beer before the family gets in.

All the best with the move,
Pat